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58 Rambler master cylinder swap????

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Joseph Lamb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 58 Rambler master cylinder swap????
    Posted: Jan/25/2021 at 8:22am
Good morning all , 
I am desperately assisting an older friend on his 1958 rambler wagon braking issues !!! This car has great pedal feel and it totally fails to slow down and stop . Undriveable , scary !!!
All brake cylinders at the wheels are new , lines are new , hoses are new , it has no proportioning valve in the system . Original drum brakes all way around .Shoes are new .
             My personal concern centers around the fact that a Hot Rod mechanic installed a 2000 
Chevrolet S10 power brake booster and disc brake master cylinder on this car. Looks like a good professional install , but the car does not think about stopping!!
             This is not my car but I own a 1971 Javelin SSt and the AMC forum has helped me so many times and I thank everyone for the help. 
             This friend of mine bought this car out of Texas and was lied to about the condition of the engine and all. He is 78 years old and helps all his friends in so many ways . He is now in way over his head .
             I assume this car came with power brakes from the factory , the actual invoice is there and this was a 4900.00 car new!!

             Anybody out there have EXPERIENCE with this type of problem ??? I want to help this great old veteran and put a smile on his face again , The master cylinder I would suspect is the problem .
             Car did come with power brakes but was it vacuum booster ??? I do not know . 

             Please if you have seen this before please lend me a hand to make a difference in this mans day!!Many thanks , Joe in Tampa 
1971 Javelin 360 SST
1973 RS Z28 350 L82 4SPD 38
YEARS

1958 Chevy Biscayne 235 powerglide
1997 Jeep TJ 151 5 speed
1960 Lark Convertible
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Heavy 488 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Heavy 488 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/25/2021 at 8:24am
Maybe it's a bad booster or the master cylinder bore is too big for the wheel cylinders
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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/25/2021 at 11:30pm
Those drum brakes don't need power assist, they are very low pedal pressure. 

If someone put an S10 power setup on it, they probably did not know what they were doing, because it will solve no problem that that car will have. If it was hard to brake before, it was a repair issue.

I would bet the fabricator didn't do their homework on pedal lever length, pushrod length, master cyl stroke, etc. 

It would probably be easier to simply replace the power nonsense and restore it to stock.

58 was single-circuit -- was it also converted to dual? That would be easy on that car! If so -- or if you want to do that now, all it would take is to replace a couple brake lines -- use a 1964 master cylinder, which is cheap and plentiful, and exactly the same as 1963 (dual) except that the ports are a different size. I used $3 adapters to fit common 3/16" line to it.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/26/2021 at 5:53am
I don't remember what master cylinder the 58 had...but in '57 with power brakes, it was the Bendix Treadle-Vac, which is nearly extinct. You can get them from the classic Chevy parts people, but pushrod length may or may not be a problem with the Chevy unit.

Chevy Original Power Brake Treadle-Vac Unit Rebuilt Service, 1958
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/26/2021 at 8:34pm
I have a feeling the fix for this problem would be to put it back to stock, Its just a feeling I have. 
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Joseph Lamb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/28/2021 at 6:31pm
Glad you read and responded to my concerns!!!! I will do as you suggest!!

Joe Lamb 
1971 Javelin 360 SST
1973 RS Z28 350 L82 4SPD 38
YEARS

1958 Chevy Biscayne 235 powerglide
1997 Jeep TJ 151 5 speed
1960 Lark Convertible
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Joseph Lamb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/28/2021 at 6:32pm
I agree with you and will do so !!! thanks !!!
1971 Javelin 360 SST
1973 RS Z28 350 L82 4SPD 38
YEARS

1958 Chevy Biscayne 235 powerglide
1997 Jeep TJ 151 5 speed
1960 Lark Convertible
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/01/2021 at 9:10am
I'd do some trouble shooting first. Hydraulics are hydraulics -- doesn't matter who makes what. Something pushes fluid, the other end receives it.

First thing I'd do is take the lines off the master cylinder and stick new lines on it. Barbs for a rubber hose would be perfect, then run rubber hose into a graduated container. Put a little brake fluid in container, note how much, then push the brake pedal. Note how much fluid comes out.

It sounds like either the pedal isn't making a long enough stroke or the pushrod in the MC isn't long enough. That's assuming the booster and MC are both good.
Frank Swygert
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