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327 Question: Will heads support 300 HP?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 8:55am
Could be wrong, but thought the Hudson 6's used the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the first 250 V8/327 V8. If that is the case, then this adapter should work:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

As for rockers, we are AMC/Rambler people are quite adept at adapting. There are many shaft mounted rocker systems out there and many ratio's:
Remember John teaching us about LS rockers on the Gen2/Gen3, don't think this is any different.
It does take time and effort, you do need to have heads to mock these up and you need a source/supplier that will let you buy and return things until you find what you need.
Not saying it's easy, not saying I can do it, as I don't have heads, engine or funds.

This is the post on the Isky camshaft:

Thanks for the link to the Isky cam info. VERY helpful, as far as it goes. Gives me something to work with.

As far as rocker arms. I've seen custom setups for pulling tractors that are shaft-mounted, so depending on shaft diameter, ratios, and overall lengths, well...options are options. Time for more research.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 1:09pm
The “original” 4speed hydramatic trans is 200+ pounds. It’s heavy compared to other three speed autos. But not 500 pounds. Maybe you were kidding. It’s a good candidate for the vintage go at this. As would the th400 from the Wagoneer setup, perhaps. That adapter does add to the weight. 

I think the intake port will flow 200. Now then. I don’t hear that the AMC gen 1 chamber or heart shaped chamber is bad. The interpretation of the heart has evolved, that’s all. One size doesn’t fit all in this instance either. It’s an 18degree Head, like the later ones.

Not having done and tested this stuff, I can only speculate a few things. The partly machined chambers - could have been machined differently. The only way to deal with that is to weld. I think it has a few things right, and a few things that if one had an unfinished raw casting.. could be way better. 

Part of the factory plug location was dictated by - yes - ease of maintenance! And they are easy. Not encumbered by exhaust manifolding. No burned wires, hands, etc. 

I could help with cam cores, and help with a little research. I do have a 260ish cam for one of these things. I will look at base circle and things. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 1:11pm
The early hydra swap would be complicated by having a workable torus and flywheel assembly, and crank flange. I still like the idea though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 4:00pm
The "early hydro" is one of the things I'm trying to get away from. I had one in my '57 Rambler with the 250 V8, and I didn't care for it. Even in '70-'72 nobody wanted to work on it, and parts availability ain't getting any better. Mine lost 2nd gear, and it was as most people describe a 700R4: driveable, but falls flat on its face after it shifts from first. I saw a reference to the weight of one of these transmissions online that quoted 435 pounds. From my experience, I don't doubt that.

I've considered going with the adapter and a THM 400, but to add OD such as Gear Vendors, that's over $3 grand; I can pick up a nice 200-4R for half the cost of the OD unit.

Let me know more about the 260-ish cam. 

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 4:41pm
It's possible that the Hudson sixes used the same bolt pattern as the Gen1 AMC V-8, but doubtful. Someone with a Gen1 (at least a block) handy would have to contact Wilcap and see if they will make a cardboard template or send exact measurements -- or you send them a template of the back of the motor. It sure would be nice if they are the same! The hub spacer would be easy enough to make is the crank bolt pattern is different, as well as drilling the flexplate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2022 at 4:50pm
A 1958-66 M-8 (M-10 with TV cable for 65 & 66) will bolt directly to a 56-57 Gen1 V-8 though. I did forget that the 57 still used the old Dual Range Hydramatic thougyh. If looking for a different trans the M-8 would work, and you should be able to bolt an M-11 to an M-8 bell, but a more modern trans would be better in the long run if you can make or find an adapter. for bolt-on with no adapter that would leave only the "Universal" TH400 and adapter that Jeep used in the late 60s.

The Nailhead case TH-400 was sold as a "Universal" trans to several manufacturers, including Rolls Royce and a couple other Brit manufacturers. The reason is that the Buick Nailhead engine had a deep skirt on the back of the block covering part (or all?) of the flywheel, so a shallow bell trans was needed. The shallow bell casting left plenty room for a thick adapter to other engines. This lasted well after the Nailhead was dropped, until sales for other makes got up to the point it was more economical to just cast a new case for each customer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jmerican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2022 at 1:54am
The cam I have is a 252 degree grind. I could go and put it on a cam doctor to measure it fully. I checked the lift and it’s basically stock-ish around .262” really close to the Jeep TSM spec. Base circle is 1.385. It seems like this may have been ground on a new core, as the gear has no pattern on it. Maybe it was used in a mock-up. It’s been installed but like new. 

I’m not selling it, but a local grinder may have some. I could check. The reason I said I’d measure the base circle, in an earlier comment, is I thought there was no room to regrind it for more lift. I think I was confusing this with TomJs post on 196.5 cams. 
There is lots a room on this gen 1 V8 cam. 

Oh and regarding the Hydramatic weight, for sure it’s heavy but it’s 200 +20. Really. It’s not 435. There were some military units that were not this type that weighed 435.

 A turbo hydramatic 400 is 130 or so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel 327X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2022 at 8:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2022 at 9:32am
Don't believe rockers will be a problem if your willing to spend the money for better:
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