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24 valve head

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Spin Doctor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spin Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/30/2020 at 11:08am
Originally posted by 73Gremlin401 73Gremlin401 wrote:

IIRC, the 'jeep' Argentinian engines are based on the Kaiser Tornado inline 6s, not the AMC motor. These were already crossflow heads, so the work they did on them were more of an evolution to the existing design.  Still, amazing work to an already interesting motor.
According to Wikipedia the Torino engine was only produced through 1982 when Renault finally stopped production of the Torino badged cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/30/2020 at 11:10am
 For those (like me) who are clueless of this engine this link leads to a decent article. https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/06/classic-engine-jeeps-tornado-straight-six.html  Sometimes it is hard to remember that Jeep and AMC were not seen as the blended family they became. And here I thought the rather rare Pontiac OHC engine was the first of its time. I remember there was this old geezer (who was probably younger than I am now) from the schools athletic booster club who had a OHC Firebird.

Edited by wittsend - Sep/30/2020 at 11:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spin Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/30/2020 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

That's what I was thinking -- the "Jeep" engine mentioned is most likely the old Kaiser Tornado OHC six, or more recently the IKA/Renault Torino OHC six (an updated version of the Tornado from 1973, built through 1982). The main feature of the Torino version is seven main bearings vs. four for the Tornado. I believe they changed the cam from six to twelve lobes, but I can''t find anything to verify that. Will have to ask some of my Argentine friends about it!
I did a little more digging online. It appears that the individual behind these heads is Jorge Pedersoli. In the thumbnail for the following video it sure looks like a 4.0 block that one of these heads is sitting on. In other videos there are valve covers all with the same appearance that have Ford, Chevrolet, a Dodge Rams head and Torino cast into them. This is what I suspect is going on here. The same basic head design is being produced (or was) for use on different fine blocks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Spin Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2020 at 11:06am
This morning I had a notification from YouTube on a reply to questions I asked about this. These heads were/are definitely used on top of the 4.0 block as well as versions for the 240 CID Ford and the Chevrolet inline six. I'm assuming the 230 CID version. 
The reply is in the comments about Newcomerxs turbo build.
Correction. The reply is in the NA double the hp video. 
One of these would be interesting in a street build. Dropping an LS in anything is so BORING. Sure it works and parts are readily available. 



Edited by Spin Doctor - Oct/25/2020 at 2:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mitchito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2020 at 1:44pm
The Jeeps in Argentina were all made in Argentina until the late 80s at least. No cars were imported to Argentina from the mid 60s to mid 80s. Venezuelan jeeps were identical to US Jeeps. They also assembled Hornets and Javelins in Venezuela. 

To the best of my knowledge, Argentine Jeeps never had OHV AMC engines as I have never even seen any of those engines there, all Concords in Argentina were 2,5s. Jeeps did come with the flathead 6 but not sure if it was an AMC of Continental derived Keiser 6
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/30/2020 at 5:48am
It was the Kaiser/Continental 226 flathead six. They may have altered the displacement at some point and made other improvements to the engine over time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/30/2020 at 5:50am
I'd like to see the price tag for that head and drive system for a 4.0L! I'm sure it would be way too much for most people, especially when there are any number of cheaper swaps available in the US. If you want an OHC I-6 then the GM Vortec 4200 (254 inches) from a 2002-2012 TrailBlazer or other GM SUV or Colorado/Canyon truck would be a good choice -- rear wheel drive already. Even the I-5 3.5/3.7L -- 211/223 inches) would be an interesting swap choice. Of course they are EFI with electronic transmissions, which complicates things, but there are aftermarket controllers available. Unfortunately GM used a unique bell pattern for the Atlas family of I-4/5/6 engines, so you're stuck with the 4L60E (great, except for electronic controls) or the NV3500 (if you find a manual trans 2WD model).


Edited by farna - Oct/30/2020 at 6:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spin Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2020 at 1:53pm
Farna 
I got a video selected for me by YouTube with a video by the Carbuando channel. They had shots of the bottom end of the modified 4.0. They replaced the Main Bearing Caps with a full cast aluminum structural girdle with a flat face all the way around for mounting the dry sump pan. It also looks like they made a designed a new front cover. The cams are driven with a toothed timing belt to the intake cam (I think) and then there is a short roller chain between the two cams. I can enable the captions but for the life of me I cant figure out how to have them translated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spin Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/03/2020 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

I'd like to see the price tag for that head and drive system for a 4.0L! I'm sure it would be way too much for most people, especially when there are any number of cheaper swaps available in the US. If you want an OHC I-6 then the GM Vortec 4200 (254 inches) from a 2002-2012 TrailBlazer or other GM SUV or Colorado/Canyon truck would be a good choice -- rear wheel drive already. Even the I-5 3.5/3.7L -- 211/223 inches) would be an interesting swap choice. Of course they are EFI with electronic transmissions, which complicates things, but there are aftermarket controllers available. Unfortunately GM used a unique bell pattern for the Atlas family of I-4/5/6 engines, so you're stuck with the 4L60E (great, except for electronic controls) or the NV3500 (if you find a manual trans 2WD model).
Price can't be cheap.  But like the man said if you have to ask you can't afford it.  Wink The main reason I originally posted about this is just to show what is possible given time, money and TALENT. The talent is the really important part. Yes an engine swap would be the easy way out. And if you are going to do that be imaginative. After all anbody can throw an LS into something. If you wanted a DOHC iline 6 to swap in there are only so many options. Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, 2JZ, RB or Barra. 
I've been thinking about just what you would need to do if you kept the 4.0 block and made a new head out of two V-6 or V-8 donor heads. The only two options I can find based on bore centers that are reasonably close are the GM LQ1 ar 4.400. The Nissan VQ V-6 and V-K engines are listed as 4.409. But they were offered with bores up to 3.860" so they likely have bigger valves than the LQ1s
If someone did this the first thing they need to do is decide how they drive the cams. I think I'd use a toothed belt driven off of an idler shaft in the cam bore. I see no reason why a street engine would need a dry sump so the stock oil pump could be used. Cut the cam off just past the #3 bearing diameter. Block the #4 cam bearing oil feed off. Plug the lifters with plugs that are pressed in with drain holes drilled through. To supply oil to the top of the engine have two plugs set up to send oil to the top end via transfer tubes. Also the plugs would need to be relieved on their oil galley side just so the galley has no restrictions.  The plugs could also be drilled to by running a 1/2 drill down the block from both ends. 
As far as the two heads go one thing in the LQ1s favor is the camshafts are mounted in cam carriers so that makes cam bearing alignment easier.
There are other issues that come up when you think this through. But a talented machinist and welder could do this. If some of the current high strength/temp epoxies out there are strong enough making the had is easier. 
Just think. The perfect excuse to get a Bridgeport.  
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