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1965 195.6 oil filter

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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2021 at 2:01pm
Ron, I somehow never saw this thread nor your elegant solution. I reinvented a similar solution, but your cover looks a lot cleaner. Is it a milled block?

Did you resolve your head oil seep?

Where's seep from? Along the plug/pump side?

What's the plug on the front edge of the cover for? I am about to make another full-flow pump, I was thinkign about some means to prime the pump, a plug or maybe a zerk for a grease gun (since Zerks have a check valve).

As Frank says it needs sealer along the oil-drain side. I had one engine with a number of small but annoying seeps along that long edge. The engine was otherwise fine and I didn't want to pull it and buy another headgasket.

I cleaned the crack out as good as I could with a can of spray carb cleaner (ruined the paint), then sealed it externally with JB Weld. It ends up being a very thin layer, not visible. Then I repainted that side. Removal years later no big deal, just a thin crust to scrape off with a putty knife. 


Originally posted by RonFrancis RonFrancis wrote:

Here's how we solved the full flow filter.  I think it looks great and takes up little room.   Note the PCV valve just above the filter.
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonFrancis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2021 at 3:14pm
Tom,
Actually the company that rebuilt my engine used one of you old posts to decide what to do. I believe the block is billet.  I think the plug was to allow drilling a passage way inside?  I'm not sure what you mean about priming, etc. Sorry.

We checked the head torque several times but see no reason to for a long time.  I have about 7000 miles with no movement in the head at all. I drive it hard, too.  I asked about sealer on the gasket but they insisted it wasn't needed with whatever they did.  We drilled a hole in the thermostat for continuous flow.  It takes extra time to warm up but the head problem should never be an issue.

I'm not and engine guy. I think I was just lucky getting a good block to start and a really good re builder.   My car had a Flathead to start.  My replacement OHV even had a correct year build date.

I hope this answers your questions.  If not explain what you mean by the priming.   Thanks for the complements.

Ron FrancisWink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2021 at 5:19pm
With just a small hole in the thermostat I routinely ran my 195.6 12-14K miles before torquing the head. The valves need to be adjusted at the 10-14K mark too, so it's no big deal to stick a torque wrench on the head bolts while the valve cover is off. I occasionally had 3-4 bolts move a little, usually no more than 1/4 turn before a nice "click" at 62 ft/lbs (click type wrench, of course!). I did this yearly when the car was a daily driver (for 14 years!). It's just a good practice with the 195.6 OHV even with better cooling mods. The heads are hard to find without cracks due to both age and having been run hot a few times over the last 56+ years. Best to do what you can to make sure it doesn't crack!

When you replace an oil pump you typically pack it with Vaseline or some similar light grease that will easily dissolve in oil. That "primes" the pump -- makes it suck much harder and faster when first started. After an engine has been broken in it's not really necessary. Wouldn't hurt, especially if a car sits a long time between starts. A pre-lube setup would fix that though.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/15/2021 at 11:20pm
Ha! That's funny. Glad ti worked out! Frank explained the priming thing... the 195.6's oil pump has it's own drive gear, so you can't prime the oil pump (with a tool inserted into the distributor hole) before starting, which as Frank points out, is critical at new-engine startup. So it's packed with vaseline at build time. It's a mild PITA but one time.

I've been thinking that maybe an added port to fill (prime) the pump, but it's probably more complexity than optimum.

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2021 at 12:42pm
Why not just thread a pipe (with attached funnel) into the MANY input ports on the main oil galley and pour oil in from above instead of pumping it from below? Not saying the Vaseline is a bad idea on the gears, just saying there is a route to getting some oil into the galley very prior to initial start up.

 Aside from that I have also left the sparkplugs out and just cranked the motor prior to initial start up. No compression reduced the load on the bearings significantly and it spins faster to get the oil flowing sooner.

With either method you are no worse off than if the oil pump was able to be driven by a rod/dill motor prior to starting. In every case the system will lose pressure but will have (some) oil remain in the galley. Frankly I even wonder if priming washes out the assembly lube? Oh, well, regardless of method it isn't staying there long anyway. Seconds after starting (and the rest of the engines life) it will be lubricated by oil (only).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2021 at 1:36pm
The new LS engines don't have a distributor.  I have seen articles in HOT ROD where the put an oil pump in a bucket of oil and use a drill to build pressure. A flex line is connected to the engine to prime it.
I took a portable air tank rigged a valve and a line to connect to the oil galley of the 196.  Filled the tank
with 5qt of oil and pressurized the tank.  I had a gauge on the oil line at the head and i could see oil on the top end.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bigbad69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2021 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by nickleone nickleone wrote:

I have seen articles in HOT ROD where the put an oil pump in a bucket of oil and use a drill to build pressure. A flex line is connected to the engine to prime it.
What you need to do is ensure the pump isn't sucking air, because it will never start up. Pressurizing the galleries may not prime the pump. Packing the gears with Vasoline (make sure there's no flies in it) ensures the pump will start up.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/16/2021 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by wittsend wittsend wrote:

Why not just thread a pipe (with attached funnel) into the MANY input ports on the main oil galley and pour oil in from above instead of pumping it from below? 

I assume (ahem...) that the point is for the suction side to draw, not so much the tiem to fill the pressurized side. Gravity pour from the pressurized side won't pass through the gears. That's my working assumption, lacking physical evidence and not willing to do that particular experiment on one of my own.


Originally posted by wittsend wittsend wrote:

Aside from that I have also left the sparkplugs out and just cranked the motor prior to initial start up. No compression reduced the load on the bearings significantly and it spins faster to get the oil flowing sooner.

That's a good point. With assembly lube that low speed, low load crankign seems unlikely to harm anything. But will a dry suction side ever draw from the pan? That's the basic question. It could even have a simple answer.

Originally posted by wittsend wittsend wrote:

I even wonder if priming washes out the assembly lube? Oh, well, regardless of method it isn't staying there long anyway. Seconds after starting (and the rest of the engines life) it will be lubricated by oil (only).

I assume that is true. It shortly becomes an oil additive, and in whoever's procedure I've copied, that oil is changed after 20 minutes of run time.

Experts (not me by a mile) have determined that those initial few seconds matter, a lot. THat is part of my hesitancy to crank-prime. 

The vaseline thing is a PITA, but a minor one. With a major positive side effect. Done once, on a new and inherently expensive engine. So I'm in no hurry to take short cuts. What's the gain?

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2021 at 9:26am
Note that the vaseline pack is extremely easy on a 195.6 with the external oil pump. On most engines you have to drop the pan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2021 at 10:53am
Just for clarification I saw "Priming" as filling the entire oil system with oil. Thus the pump, galleys and to a minor extent getting oil to the bearings without (hopefully) washing out the assembly lube. This in theory (given residual oil) would more quickly get oil to the needed surfaces. I see this as beneficial over a completely "dry" engine (but not disregarding assembly lube). Thus why I suggested pouring oil in through one of the many main galley holes. I did not mean to supplant using Vaseline in the pump gears. Nor was I intending it to be a means to backfill the oil pump.

So:
1. Assembly lube on wearing surfaces.
2. Vaseline in the oil pump.
3. I tend to pour on oil on the rockers before I tight down the valve cover.
4. In the case of the AMC 196 engine, being there are about 3-4 input points on the main oil galley getting that little bit of extra oil in the system even if only gravity fed.
5A. Prime with a drill and rod to turn the oil pump (not AMC 196).
5B. Or..., crank the engine with the plugs removed until pressure is detected.

I think we are all on the same page but perhaps I didn't explain it well in my post.

'63 American Hardtop
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