Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
196 swap for 232 |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Bonrobbi
AMC Fan Joined: Sep/22/2016 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: Oct/15/2016 at 6:33pm |
Can anyone tell me if the 232 from a 1971 hornet that had an auto trans will bolt to the 3spd manual in my 64 Classic 550? Thanks
|
|
pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes, it will bolt up but you will need to make pedestals for the motor mounts (which formerly held a 195.6), if that is what your are doing. the 232 motor mounts are a different height. I can send you pictures of what the previous owner did on my 64 Classic. It had a 232 swapped in when I got it. You may have other minor conflicts such as the starter might be a tight fit to the firewall but they can be dealt with. Joe
|
|
Happiness is making something out of nothing.
|
|
vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Rad needs to go forward. you can have the side mounts reversed to opposite sides.
The exhaust needs to move over a bit and 2 hole flange rather than three. Throttle linkage moves over a bit. If going to a 2V WCD the throttle plate may open opposite direction. Bell crank levers can be removed and welded to opposite side on pivot or go to a cable operated throttle. Starter interferes with 232 engine block. It has to come down the circumference about 3/8" by elongating holes and taking a bit off starter housing. Get the 232 bell if you can but you would also need a 232 flywheel with it because the ring gear diameter is 1/2" larger. 64 Typhoon came with a 232. It would have the proper engine perches on the cross member. Anyone got a picture of one? I'd like to replace my 2" X 3" blocks with something that looks original. Check out the Haggerty article on the 5 best sixes ever made. AMC comes out on top. |
|
tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
if your classic has a 199ci now, the '71 should be the same as the '64 199.
if it has a 195.6, then you can simply (sic) get a front crossmember from a 199/232 car. it's got the motor mounts for the "new six". it's easy enough to swap. i put a 232 into a '63 Classic 550 Cross Country. the radiator brackets on the 232 are at the rear of the tanks, so the radiator is pushed forward. (on the 195.6 they were at the front of the radiator, and pushed it back). if you have a full height radiator, sheet metal from the valance lives below where the tank wants to be. i had to cut that section out for the radiator to drop into place. other than aesthetics there is no downside. you'll of course need throttle linkage and all that underhood trivia. if the current motor is a 199, i'd pay you for the connecting rods from it, on the far chance you disassemble it. i have a long plan to build a 199... yes, crazy i know. |
|
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
|
vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think the only correct cross member would be from a 64 typhoon with a 232. By 65 they extended the front end and the perches are different. I removed a 66 cross member from the junk yard and from what I remember they don't line up.
|
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Are you sure the 66 CM was for a six and not a V-8? The main body wasn't extended, nor the wheelbase changed. Any extension was just in front of the crossmember. Of course AMC may have moved the engine a bit more forward when the front end was extended. Shouldn't be much, but would affect where the rear axle sits.
The 232 in place of a 196 isn't a hard conversion, but does take a little work. I used 2"x3" rectangular tubing bolted to the 232 (in my case a 4.0L with 232/258 mounts bolted on, side plates and all) mounts, 2" vertical. Use at least 11 gauge tubing. Then when the engine is put in place get under the car and mark where the holes for the 196 mounts in the CM on the tubing. If on a lift you can drill from the bottom without removing the engine again. Drill and tap for FINE THREAD 3/8" bolts, use lock washers and lock-tite. The 11 gauge tubing is roughly 1/8" thick, and you need a fine thread bolt to have enough threads to hold. You can't get to the top side to use a nut. You could weld a piece of 1/8" plate to the underside so you have 1/4" for threads, or weld a nut on the inside of the tubing and drill a slightly larger hole (like 7/q6" -- the nut will have all the threads). I used pieces of tuning about 5" long, placed perpendicular to the crossmember. The 11 gauge with fine thread bolts is just fine -- I ran a 4.6L stroker with the same setup and drove it a bit hard at times. |
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes the cross member had a six sitting on it and both are now in my garage.
I'll have to look again to see what the differences are. I had cut the perches off with the intention of modifying them to weld onto the 64 cross member. |
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Vinny, I hope you took no offense at my comments. I wasn't questioning you personally. I know AMC made some seemingly odd changes over the years, that's just an unexpected one. I've never had CMs from the two different models side by side though. Now I'll have to check the parts book and see if the torque tube is different! I bet it is -- should be slightly longer for the 65-66 models, but then the transmission may have a slightly longer output shaft and housing instead... or maybe with the change in trans models (the 65-66 used the TV cable "M-10"... not sure that's the official designation) the body was slightly longer...
|
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No offense taken.
I have had three differentials in my car. First was the AMC15 that spun a hub because I didn't know to re-torque it. Second was an AMC20 with 9" brakes and 1 1/4" axles that I got from a Rambler used parts guy many years ago in Burnaby BC. The third is the AMC20 with 10" brakes and 1 3/8" axles I took from the 66 Ambassador. They all seemed to fit properly with no difference in wheel position. I would say the difference is in where the 232 sits over the 64 cross member. The perches would need to be slightly forward of center whereas the perches on the 66 cross member were slightly aft of center, about 2" difference between the two. Maybe someone will someday make perches that can be welded onto the 63 and 64 cross member to accommodate the 232. I am pretty sure transmission lengths are the same between T96 and M35. Once I get the 66 bell housing under it I will have the full running gear from the 66 Ambassador. With the 63 and 64 Classics I think it makes for a better car to use the running gear from a 65 or 66. |
|
tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
oh right, i forgot! in my 63 classic 550, i got the engine hoisted into place, onto the '64 six crossmember, and found that the holes on the motor mount perches on the xmember were in the wrong place. i had to haul it back out and drill new holes. but that's all that was needed. the hole is sort of close to one edge of the perch (i dont recall if fore or aft of the stock hole) which seemed a bit dubious at the time, but given the metal in the insulator, it was fine when i sold the car in 2012.
it was a '70 motor in a 63 car using a 65 classic flashomatic and rear axle. i've never been one for maintaining originality. |
|
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |