"1958 Rambler Super" mission fix it and drive it.

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   In other words -- "learning by trial and error (with some research and questions) all the required stuff to work on/rebuild an old car from scratch".   

Some of the things you've done the hard way by choice, some you just didn't know. Many of us have been there, done that!

Kudos for keeping at it and not giving up despite the set-backs!

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farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/11/2023 at 3:36pm
	In other words -- "learning by trial and error (with some research and questions) all the required stuff to work on/rebuild an old car from scratch". Some of the things you've done the hard way by choice, some you just didn't know. Many of us have been there, done that! Kudos for keeping at it and not giving up despite the set-backs!
	Frank Swygert

SixunoSix Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/02/2020 Location: Blairmore AB Status: Offline Points: 75	Post Options Post Reply Quote SixunoSix Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/11/2023 at 3:44pm
	Just stick with it, and plug away, you could have made your life easier and dove into the world of restoration with a Ford or a Chevy...but where's the fun in that? Stick to the KISS method! Keep it simple stupid, words of wisdom from my high school auto shop teacher.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/11/2023 at 4:44pm
	I went back a page and read your lament about removing the instrument cluster. My first thought was "I thought he had a 58 TSM?" So I broke mine out. Not much in the thin body volume, must be in the much thicker mechanical book in the Electrical section. Yep, there it is... but no mention about how to remove the cluster to work on it!! Now I see your dilemma... Well, the body book first page does offer a clue. There is an overlay over the front of the cluster. I'd start by removing that. You will likely have to remove the overlay to the right (between cluster and glove box) also. The cigarette lighter may have to come out to remove that. If you can't see screws for the cluster after the overlay is off, it likely has screws behind it under the dash like later models do. That means lying in the floor and looking up, then practicing your contortionist moves to get them out and pull the cluster back and down from the bottom. Ugh... BUT -- test the gauges first. Simply turn the ignition switch on and ground the sending unit wire. The gauge itself should peg out at the top. Works the same for the temp and fuel gauges. If it doesn't move it could be the wire to the gauge, the gauge, or the voltage regulator. The regulator is the first thing to replace as it is a bi-metal unit that gives an average of 5V by "clicking" on and off rapidly. Works sort of like a turn signal relay ("blinker"), just a lot faster. I'd only replace it if BOTH gauges have the same reaction though. If either one works as expected it's not likely the regulator, as it powers both. They usually fail by having the arm inside break off, but they can fuse together or the arm can partially break and make contact all the time, giving a steady 12V, which will then burn out the gauge over a short time (probably a couple minutes or maybe even hours operation... but not immediately). Regulator is a metal "box" looking device that plugs into the back of the cluster on most Ramblers. May have to remove the cluster to find and replace it, so back to square one...
	Frank Swygert

1958 rambler super Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201	Post Options Post Reply Quote 1958 rambler super Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/12/2023 at 3:33pm
	So I did your test of grounding the post, and the gauge went up all the way to full, I guess the gauge is fine, and maybe the wire is messed up place.... But I thought I put on a new wire that had a post connected on it, it wasn't tightened on with a tiny nut or anything, just slipped over the post, and the gauge did nothing.... Maybe the connector I slipped on wasn't enough and I need to try a diff type of connector, like a connector that actually slips over the whole post.

1958 rambler super Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201	Post Options Post Reply Quote 1958 rambler super Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/12/2023 at 9:40pm
	Well I suppose I didn't do your test, because you asked me to ground the sending unit wire, not the post, but does that matter? So if I connected a wire to one of the posts, and then grounded it, and the gauge reads full tank, does that mean that post is where the ground goes? Or is that post where the positive (I suppose that's what it's called, the positive post) wire attaches? Edited by 1958 rambler super - Feb/12/2023 at 9:42pm

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/13/2023 at 7:28am
	Switch has to be on, and you have to ground the post that goes to the sending unit. If the gauge or cluster is out you can supply 5V directly to the gauge power in post and ground it, but DO NOT use a 12V car battery -- you will burn up the gauge. You can use a car battery on the entire cluster by jumping a wire to the 12V input on the back of the cluster near the regulator or to the connector though. The factory gauge has two posts. One is where ~5V goes in, the other is for the sending unit wire. It doesn't have a ground -- that is through the sending unit wire, which varies resistance. The cluster itself has a ground for the regulator. With the switch on, cluster in car (or at least plugged into the connector -- connector has a ground wire) you can connect a wire to the sending unit post and ground it. Gauge should peg at the top. The test is usually done at the sending unit end with everything in the car. That way you're testing the gauge and the wire. If you unplug the temp sending unit at the engine and ground that wire and the gauge pegs high (no resistance), then the gauge and the wire are good. Same with the fuel level sending unit. If you have the cluster out you either feed 5V to the power post on the gauge and use the other post for ground, it should do the same, but you don't know if the wire is good or not. If you use a car battery for power connect to the power in and ground pins on the connector. TSM wiring diagram will have the pin-out. You can use an electronic 5V regulator to replace the can, same procedure as this on a 63 cluster: https://www.ramblerlore.com/AMC/dashreg/index.html. You find which pin is power and sending unit by following the traces on the cluster board back to the connector pins.
	Frank Swygert

1958 rambler super Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201	Post Options Post Reply Quote 1958 rambler super Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/13/2023 at 10:28am
	Forgive me if I'm not seeing in my mind what you are saying, But I assume what I did is verifying the gauge works, and I did the test correctly, even if the switch was off when I connected the wire to the post, then switched it on. I assume that doesn't matter. Also, your paragraph where you mention the test is usually done at the sending unit end at the gas tank.... Here's how my mind would explain understanding this.... Drop the gas tank to have access to the top of sending unit, connect a wire to the top of the sending unit with a little alligator clip where the wire gets attached to the sending unit under the little nut, then connect THAT wire to a good ground, such as at end of tail pipe after a little sand paper to clean up the metal, turn on the ignition and the gauge should go to full, if it does, the wire going to the gauge is good and so is gauge, if not, there is damage to wire somewhere between gas tank and gauge.

1958 rambler super Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201	Post Options Post Reply Quote 1958 rambler super Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/17/2023 at 10:31am
	3rd attempt at leak free brake system has failed.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/18/2023 at 7:51pm
	I suspect it's the flares. Hard to make a double flare without a lot of practice. Keep going, you'll eventually get it. Or just buy straight pre-flared lines close to the correct length and bend them. If you need 4-5" get a 6" line and put an S bend in it. It's that simple. There is a connector if you need a line more than 60" long.
	Frank Swygert

1958 rambler super Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/10/2020 Location: Victoria BC can Status: Offline Points: 1201	Post Options Post Reply Quote 1958 rambler super Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/24/2023 at 11:46am
	Hi farna, I really do think I took the time to make the best flares I could, I was really careful with the entire process and the flares looked just as good as the pre-made lines, but this is why I think one or more flare/seat relationships failed... think I've learned that if the brake line has to pushed or pulled to thread into the fitting, it might still be pulling or pushing this way or that after it has been tightened down, and the holding power of the threads will not be enough to compress the double inverted flare onto the seat in a balanced way and the brake fluid, while maybe being influenced by hundreds of pounds of pressure per square inch, will find a way out of the that spot/side the flare isn't compressed onto the flare as much as the other side, and there will be a leak there. So I will try and remake some of the ends of the hard lines, and try and maybe reduce or make longer the length by maybe 1/8 of an inch, and make sure the lines are threading into the fittings with reasonable and smaller amounts of "helping" for the lines to get connected. OR your right, but I really can't show you the quality of the flare I made which I'm confident about. Also, I did notice some what I will call "unbalanced score marks" the prev hard lines had cut into the brass seats of some of the old connections, and the brakes were not leaking at those places...