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195.6 timing set... |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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Posted: Apr/21/2021 at 1:18pm |
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I'm looking for timing chain set (chain, cam sprocket, crank sprocket) reliable part numbers. "Catalog collapse" strikes again. Aftermarket seems to have collapsed aluminum and cast iron OHV and flathead, and possibly a couple variations, all into one mess.
The only part number I am confident of is the chain, Melling 339. Kanter has the parts at a reasonable $115 (that's what reasonable is now). I'd like to find the part numbers in any case, Melling or other manufacturer. Anyone else have old boxes with numbers? eBay, nothing. The iron OHV chains and teeth are .765" wide, but many sources call it "3/4". These are the measured specs on the parts: Chain: 30 links/60 teeth, 1" wide outside Crank: 23 teeth, 1.375" ID, keyed Cam: 46 teeth, keyed Any hard information appreciated. Edited by tomj - Apr/21/2021 at 2:18pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11471 |
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I'd say the Kanter price is reasonable! I believe the crank sprocket is S230 in Cloyes -no longer available and the cam gear is S229. Jegs and Summit list a Melling Chain, #365-but I don't believe they are correct! Edited by ramblinrev - Apr/24/2021 at 3:45pm |
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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Japa109
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/17/2018 Location: Millersville, P Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Last spring I could find timing sets for $105. The vendors now have them at $190! Tom, I will share my source with you via PM. I just bought two more sets at $75 and I have him searching his buildings for more.
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Japa 109
1963 American 2 dr wagon OHV-2V OD 1962 American 400 4 door OHV-2V Auto AC PS PDB |
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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I bought my '63 American HT back in 1995. Grabbed an engine at Pick Your Part and the ONE THING I did was put a new timing set in it. I think I got it at Kregan or Trak Auto - all those stores that are no longer around (here anyway). As best I recall it even came with gears and was..., $25 and IN STOCK.
If/when I ever get the engine cracked open for my Poorman's Rebuild I'm hoping to find that 2,000 miles I put on the chain set since 1995 amounted to little wear. Getting the part numbers is good. A lot of times people will get boxloads of stuff and can't be bothered looking up the application. So, sometimes good deal are found because they just list by number. Got this from the Melling site. |
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'63 American Hardtop
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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Thanks for the numbers! WIll look up in the AM when I'm at my desktop.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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And sometimes the only way to find the part is by number. Catalog collapse is real.
The chain is 339. Its 60 teeth, 1". (The teeth are actuallt .765" wide, 3/4 on a tape measure :-) The melling site stopped working for me, aargh. Browser issue I guess. But there's contradictory info on the sprockets; search by app returns part numbers, but searching part numbers got different apps and importantly,d imensions. None of the sprockets listed on Melling are correct (dimensionally). Melling has not one 23-tooth crank gear, so that's that. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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I'll message you elsewhen... I bought a Kanter set, i'm super tight for cash, so I have to restrain the inner paranoid wanting multiples on the shelf seeing how soon I will have a machinists bill. I hauled home another junk 62 195.6 OHV (sigh) and forthehellofit pulled the timing cover to looksee. The chain is so sloppy I wonder if it could have idled. But it was 23T/46T /765" 60 tooth chain. And oil that flaked off the cover like kale chips (probably as edible as kale chips), so I suspect it was run crazy-hot before it died.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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wittsend
AMC Nut Joined: Apr/15/2020 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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I'm beginning to wonder that it will get to the point that nothing will be available and something like a modern engine chain guide will have to be "McGuyvered" to take up the chain slack. That does nothing for durability using old components so it may get to the point of machining more common crank/cam gears to fit and then using the fore mentioned chain guide with a 'close but not close enough' new chain from another application. Belt driven valvetrains have it easier. In my Turbo Pinto world some have adapted a Volvo DOHC head to the Ford 2.3 block. That even gets Mitsubishi parts blended in. But with a belt tensioner they only need the correct tooth count, tooth pattern on the pulleys and be 'close enough' on the belt length.
Edited by wittsend - Apr/22/2021 at 11:49am |
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'63 American Hardtop
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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Yeah but it's the wrong part for "most" 195.6's. I think there is a 1961-only timing set with narrow teeth. But 1965 and 1962 are definitely .765" teeth and 1" wide chain -- I measured. Incorrect data is a large part of the problem. There's a lot of different timing chains and sprockets. It's group 1.130, 1.132, 1.134. The AMC numbers don't help locate aftermarket parts sadly, so I'm going by actual measurements. For this engine the big hint is 23-tooth crank 46 tooth cam sprocket teeth. It was the only Melling part with 23 teeth. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7522 |
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That time may be soon. The internet's been great for finding parts, but also good for draining all the sources! But who knows. There seems to be plenty of pistons at the moment, new-manufacture.
If someone does indeed find a work-alike/modifyable timing parts, that would be a big help. We're scrounging rod and main bearings, still a reasonable selection, but they've disappeared from most catalogs. Cams and tappets are scarce. Headgaskets have one source (Best) plus old stock. oil pumps are scarce, but on that front I'm working up some options: I found a simple way to adapt the 65 pump to the early chassis, but requires you switch to full-flow filtration, I won't drive one without it. The E-stick pump has much larger gears in a very similar package, with a full-flow cover it's gonna be a great high-perf pump. There are some repair parts for it because it wasn't exactly popular. Price is up on all parts, but what else is new. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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