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195.6 ohv oiling system explaination and "how to".

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tomj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2021 at 10:19pm
Its' as wittsend sez. The 195.6 is not a "full flow" oil filtration system. All modern engines -- modern meaning 1964! -- are full-flow. So remote filter kits don't say "for full flow only" because there is no other kind of thing to be, any more.

IN FACT I happen to need a remote oil filter mount -- and I have a 195.6 oil filter mount. Wanna swap? 

PM me a photo of the oil filter mount part, if you indeed want to swap. I don't want the part that screws onto the engine. I want only the oil filter adapter. I need to see how it mounts, I wanna duplicate what I did on my roadster, filter-wise.

The full-flow mod for the 195.6 I don't recommend for you. It's invasive, requires machining and welding, and you will ahve your hands full as it is bringing up a new motor. Change the oil too-often and the bypass system will be more than adequate.


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/16/2021 at 6:20am
I ran a 195.6 for 14 years and ~5K miles a year (on average) with the stock filter and changing the oil every 3-3.5K miles. No excess wear on anything. The partial flow if perfectly adequate for a normal engine with normal carb engine oil changes (every 3K miles or so). I've torn several 196 OHVs and flatheads down, and none showed any more wear than expected, about the same as engines I've torn down with full flow filters over the years (3-4 258/4.0L sixes and several other V-8s and fours).
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2021 at 11:07pm
Ok, wittsend created adequate imagery for me to wrap my mind around the ideas between the two types of oil routing/ systems, ok, up untill this point I was planning on changing the size of feed line and link line (from "t" fitting on cyl head to filter that's what I meen by link line) changing the size from 1/8 ID to 1/4, so I was thinking of doubling it because I thought it would be too small, but i have repeatedly reminded myself I'm not a engineer who designed this thing and I should not change the size even though farna says going up a size won't hurt (I think that's what he said).
But F it.
If it's supposed to be 1/8, I'm gunna build it with 1/8 feed and link sized line. 
If the return was supposed to be 5/16 it'll stay 5/16 (like I had planned)
So on Monday when I go back to the fitting store for the fifth time I'm gunna change the sizes of those lines from 1/4 to 1/8 ID.
If that's the way it is then that's the way it is.
(Other then the whole thing with me constructing it out of rubber hose and using a diff filter base that you can see in the back of this pic, I think I wanna put it under the ballast resistor, and that's the old and new oil pan nut washer to fix the oil pan leak)



Edited by 1958 rambler super - Jun/20/2021 at 10:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 8:42am
Just to be clear, I mentioned that going up a size or two (1/8 to 3/16 or 1/4) wouldn't make much difference in oil pressure due to the restriction of the filter, and that return line size would have even less effect, but should be at least one size up from feed.

Now I was assuming the T in the head was the same size as factory since it's a fixed size (1/8" NPT). To change that the hole would have to be drilled an trapped. Of course the oil feed to the filter doesn't  have to use the same feed point. Any plug on the main gallery would be fine to feed the filter. I'm pretty sure all are 1/4" NPT though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2021 at 10:40am
Ok, if it won't make much of a difference in the oil pressure, would it also not make much of a difference in the amount of oil in the engine to have the bigger 1/4ID hoses, one will be the length from the main oil gallery to the "t" in the cyl head, after that this is where the length changes, and the amoung of oil not in the engine increases, the link will be around 21 inches and the larger size will be 5/16 and that length will be around 35 inches, travelling from the filter down to that lower threaded hole sending the oil back into the crank case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/21/2021 at 6:48am
Length won't make much difference in volume, just a few ounces. Put in the five quarts of oil (four if you pre-filled the filter), run it a bit, then check oil level after engine cools off. That ensures all the oil has drained from the lines that will drain back. It might be a little below full, but shouldn't be much lower -- definitely will still be in the "safe" range.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1958 rambler super Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/24/2021 at 10:05pm
Ok, should I put the 5quarts in if the tsm says the capacity is 4quarts? Will filling the filter hold enough oil to make it ok to add the extra quart?
Also, I tried to change the size of feed and link hose to 1/8 but the guys at the newline hose and fittings store said they didn't have that size.... I still wanna ask tomj if he is willing to sell me a stock filter mount, or I could try hunting for my own, the reason I wanted to go this way is the newer remote filter mount was easier to get and use, and with the time limit of trying to break in the engine blah blah blah sooo tired of talking about the break in.....I thought the filter mount would take to long to get to me in the mail, but it looks like if I was waiting for it it would probably show up around the time the first stay up happens anyways.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/24/2021 at 11:00pm
Personally, I would be very wary of anything that bleeds off oil pressure. The filter does have a small orfice in the center (going by old and dubious memory), but is that really what limits oil flow? It may -- I don't know. Personally I would not want to do anything whatsoever that could have an effect on critical break-in. 

OK a bigger line would move more through the filter. How much improvement is that? At what potential cost? Changing the oil every 2000 miles will more than make up for it. Also modern oil is so much better anyway compared to when this engine was "new".

I see no *advantage* to increasing the size of the line feeding the oil filter. There is no *disadvantage* to sticking with the 3/16" feed line. What gain do you propose that will come with a larger filter feed line?


I've run five quarts vs. four in my roadster, trying to solve the oil pickup going dry in turns (twisty mountain roads).  I don't think it improved that. But it did increase oil consumption. (I eventually solved my problem with a thing called an Accusump.) Without some sort of window into the crankcase it's not possible to know exactly, but at "high speeds" (lol, define!) oil in (all) crankcases tends to stay in motion, on crankcase walls, in the air, clinging to the crank and rods, flung everywhere. So more oil on cylinder walls needing to be scraped off by the rings should be no surprise that oil consumption (past the rings, tossed up the PCV, valve cover vents, etc). (There's a whole world of concern for this stuff, look up wet sump vs. dry sump engines...)


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2021 at 6:37am
I wouldn't run it higher, not in this engine! As TomJ pointed out, a higher level can increase oil consumption. I ran 1/2 quart more in mine as I did some rather "spirited" driving (not quite what Tom's doing though), and that seemed to heck without increasing oil consumption noticeably. But for normal cruising around? Fill the filter (assuming it has an adequate anti-drainback valve... I don't remember if the stock filter does!), then put in 3-4 quarts. Won't hurt to run the engine while not moving one quart low -- it will have adequate oil in it. The low mark on the dip stick is one quart low. Run it, then let it cool down and check oil level, fill to full mark. I've always put in one quart less on an engine I wasn't familiar with then done the above. After a few times you know exactly what it takes.

I'm really with TomJ on the line sizes, especially the feed line. No issues with keeping the originals. I don't think going up 1/16" will make a noticeable difference in oil pressure, but it may make some. The drain back line size being larger won't hurt, just drains the filter quicker. But the engineers did a lot of work figuring out what sizes were desired.... we think. They may have just arbitrarily picked what they thought was a good size and that was that... but we don't know that. Size could have been carefully calculated to flow no more than ~30% of the oil through the filter at all times...
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wittsend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2021 at 12:47pm
Buried deep in the caverns of my '61 Corvair Station wagon (yet another ongoing reclamation project) is my spare AMC 196 OHV head.

 Here are two images of the factory oil filter mount. The close up shows the size of the inlet/outlet. My assumption is (but I don't know for sure) that the center hole which appears somewhat larger is the drain-back hole, and the off-center hole is the inlet opening??? I base that on the fact the drain back has less pressure and thus the need for the larger size. In either case the hole sizes are not very large especially regarding the smaller/restricted center hole in relation to the diameter of the thread-on filter pipe - which normally has no restriction in a "flow through" filter setup.

I think there is a lot of merit in using the factory system than taking an un-engineered stab with guestimated hose sizes. The restrictive aspects of the AMC design are there for a reason. And I believe others have offered the the AMC system to you. In one case an outright exchange for the flow through you have. In the end you have to decide for yourself but do weigh the matter.






Edited by wittsend - Jun/25/2021 at 12:54pm
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