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complete front end swap

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67droptop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67droptop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: complete front end swap
    Posted: Jun/14/2009 at 12:18pm
Anyone do a complete front suspension swap?   something along the lines of an AlterKtion for mopars?     In that way, you could run coilovers, or airbags, rack and pinion steering as well as big disk brakes.       Theres not much performance stuff around for a 67 Rebel.  Unless I'm looking in the wrong place....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 9:19am
I put Shockwaves and a rack steering system on my 72 using the stock suspension arms with home made adaptors. I haven't found a big brake setup I like yet, but I am looking. Since you have trunions, your options are fewer. This AMC forum is geared more to the resto crowd and not for guys like me that modify stuff.
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 9:40am
You won't find anything in a magazine that is a drop in, but things like this have been done by creative guys like Richard. I modified my front suspension to Mustang springs, and others have done rack & pinion conversions. It will just take a little more work and research with an AMC. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 11:33am
I want to change the complete front suspension on my Prostreet 77 AMX and am considering just completly cutting everthing off at the firewall and starting from scratch. If I go that far I will be able to adapt a kit for race cars. I might leave the frame rails but that project won't start until my Hemi/Javelin is on the road. Another idea is to use another spindle from a dual control arm car such as an early Mustang, then you can use an aftermarket new tech version of the spindle and any brake upgrades they make for it. One problem with using a Mustang spindle is that the steering arm is part of the casting and as I have discovered in my Javelin build, you need shorter steering arms with a rack. I ended up using Pacer arms and they were a bolt on fix. There hasn't been much research out there on ways to improve the AMC front suspension like the other guys have so I'm not sure what you can change to make it better. I don't know if a copy of our control arms built from tubular components would be a benifit or not without geometry research first. It might turn out that a stock suspension rebuilt with quality components works just fine but only time will tell since we don't have many options now. New cars have the benifit of modern computor design and research to test various setups. I have never read an in depth article on what the quirks of the AMC design are.
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 12:12pm
I'd wonder about adapting in a strut system.
All the rods around here - probably half or better have been so modified there's nothing left of the original suspension or steering.
Some of the engineering is great, and some are downright scary the way they screwed up the angles on turns....... must wear tires awful and be a bit unstable on high-speed turns.
Granted, these rodders have the advantage of thousands across the country doing it and turn-key systems, but it would seem if you really wanted or needed it, something could be done.
I used to do some pretty good autocross with my trunion systems - when solid and tuned and aligned, they do well...... at least IMO for what I did.
a GOOD alignment paying attention to detail can do wonders for even older cars. Shocks, sway bars, etc................
If you really want to pursue - find a street rod builder close-by and take the car or photos to them........ some of the mom and pop front end shops might be of some help, too.
A big part of it is "what do you want it to do", how will you use it most, what's most important to you and how long do you plan on keeping it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 1:40pm
IMO, if you want 1990's technology, buy a 1990's car. the AMC's are late 60's early 70's technology.  but if  you do change everything,  BE VERY CAREFUL! its just like brakes, if you dont have brakes, its very dangerous. well, if you have a cobbled together steering set up, it may or may not be safe.........You do have to understand geometry, and there are standards.......if I sound leery, well, I am.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 2:48pm
I'm not sure I see a problem.
Rebuild the stock stuff, add a set of swaybars and new springs, good shocks.
Low profile tires and go.
brakes?
Need big brakes?
Our cars have to be one of the easiest cars ever made to do custom brakes on!
The bolt on spindle makes almost anything possible.
Detail the trunion frontend and most guys will think it is allready a custom setup!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/17/2009 at 6:08pm
My Shockwaves are connected to the stock (for now) control arms and replace the coil spring and the lower spring mount. No coble jobs there. I spent a lot of time building the mount system for the rack and bumpsteer kit for this car. I even purchased a caster/camber gauge and plan to alaign it myself. I also have seen some scary front suspension setups in the past and I refuse to make my own front suspension critical components. Some of the kits out there are only designed to get you down a 1/4 mile track with little concern for street driving or road coarse stuff. The technology in this area has increased greatly over the years but still nothing AMC specific. While I certianally agree that the bolt on setup AMC used on almost all it's car models would make it pretty easy to add improved aftermarket brakes, so far this market has been mostly ignored. Scarbird's kit covers the guy just wanting newer stock components and Aerospace makes a pretty nice setup that I don't know much about yet, the big boys in the Aftermarket brake world haven't offered anything yet. There is a guy, McKintire, I think that makes his own caliper mounts to adapt a Willwood caliper to a drum brake AMC spindle and hub. The drum brake hub has a Willwood rotar. The kit is about $2500 and built in very limited runs, and requires you to find the correct spindles, that require machining, and correct drum brake hubs that have the removable drum. Not a cost effective option. I personally am waiting for a detailed description of what needs fixing on the stock front suspension, before I go experementing. I have looked into a complete front suspension swap using late model components, but have not found a suitable donar yet. So far I have only looked at later model Mustang stuff since I want to retain the bolt pattern. Those Mustang guys have a lot of stuff available. Mustang II stuf is good for street rods, but I've heard it's a little wide for our cars and is still pretty old tech by today's standards.

Edited by prostreetamx - Jun/17/2009 at 6:09pm
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2009 at 10:26am
There's a tubular front crossmember for the Javelin that should fit the big cars. It was discussed here:
http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1159932874/0
The pics links are old and dead, but hopefully someone will see my post soon and put up new pics or links.

I agree with prostreet -- Mustang II stuff is no better than 70+ AMC, but there are more choices. Most of the current crop of MII type front suspensions aren't really MII, but modified and/or custom made for the big rod companies. Art Morrison sells front stub chassis with MII like front end installed which would be excellent if cutting the whole front forward of the firewall off. I've often suggested a Chevy II bolt-on front clip be used in the small Americans, shoulc be about the right length.

I've investigated strut front suspensions. Something from a rear drive Volvo or a Nissan 280Z should be adaptable. Better yet, get an early Mustang strut kit and adapt it. What I've really concluded is that for a driver and even most performance driving there is no real reason to change the front suspension. Rack and pinion is time consuming and/or costly, as are many of the brake kits. Unless you're building a custom show piece like prostreet, you're better off with simple upgrades like a quick ratio Grand Cherokee or Camaro/Firebird steering box and similar items rather than changing everything. If you're building a custom show piece then it might be worth the attention getting effort and cost, but for most it's not.

Oh, prostreet, ALL front drums come off the hubs. Hard to tell, but they are press fit on. Push the studs out then drive the drum off. I place a nice strong 2x4 block over the hub end and use a big hammer. You'll ruin the drum, but the hub will be fine. You could put it in a hydraulic press too -- didn't have one handy at the time I "checked" to see if the drum would come off a spare hub I had. Talk to the guys at Scarebird about making you a mount that will take a Willwood caliper. Should be easy, then use the standard Ranger rotor with it -- but shouldn't be hard to find a Willwood hat and rotor with an offset that would work.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2009 at 8:16pm
I'm looking for oversize brakes and while the Ranger rotars are new and common, they are no bigger than the rebuilt Kelsey Hayes brakes I already have. My 72 came with 2 different style front drums and I already gave away the one that the hub was part of the drum. While I did not knock out the studs, it didn't appear to be 2 seperate pieces. I have had some in the past that the drum could be removed easiely without any stud removal, but some must be a pretty tight fit. I am planning to completly repaint the car on sat. since I have the time now since I am also unimployed. Any further mods will have to wait until I get back to work so I don't eat up my cushion. Big brakes will have to wait a few months. When I get this car on the road, I will probably do all my brake mockups on the 77 AMX, since they share the same suspension. I then plan to swap out the front clip on that car to lighten it up for drag racing, if I end up doing any with this car.
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

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