ANOTHER MOTOR

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   I JUST BOUGHT A 64 RAMBLER AMERICAN 6 CYLINDER FLATHEAD WITH 3 SPEED O/D. IS THERE ANOTHER MOTOR OTHER THAN RAMBLER THAT WILL BOLT UP TO MY TRANNY ?  THANKS

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RINGO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Oct/23/2021 Location: OREGON Status: Offline Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote RINGO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: ANOTHER MOTOR Posted: Oct/23/2021 at 9:27am
	I JUST BOUGHT A 64 RAMBLER AMERICAN 6 CYLINDER FLATHEAD WITH 3 SPEED O/D. IS THERE ANOTHER MOTOR OTHER THAN RAMBLER THAT WILL BOLT UP TO MY TRANNY ? THANKS

purple72Gremlin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614	Post Options Post Reply Quote purple72Gremlin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/23/2021 at 9:29am
	Sorry to say when you type in capital letters, thats considered yelling. Only another 196 flathead

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 7:03am
	That's incorrect... but only another Rambler motor. You can bolt in a 196 OHV (35 more hp) or a 199/232 made in the 65-71 time frame. There are some mods needed to put a 199/232 in, but that is your best bet. Other than that you'll have to change the transmission as well. You can easily use a 72+ AMC six and trans in that car. You'll need to do the same mods to put a 199/232 in as well as alter the trans crossmember for the trans used (can''t use the OD!). The rear axle is a rather low 3.78 with OD and the 90 hp flat head -- you'll want to change that to something higher with a newer model three speed auto trans, something around 2.73/3.08 or so. One thing to note about that transmission -- DO NOT downs-shift into first gear while moving!! You can do it safely under 10 mph, but best to wait until stopped. If you try to down-shift to slow as you would a more modern trans you will chip teeth in first gear. There is only on synchro -- between 2nd and 3rd. Those old trannys were designed to only use first to take off with a heavy load. It's a 30s design, really. Back then people didn't use first unless they had to (in the 30s...). Motors were low compression and made lots of low end torque. On more or less level ground people were expected to take off in 2nd and shuffle between 2nd and 3rd as needed, using first only to take off on an incline or with a heavy load. Totally different driving technique than used from about the 50s on!! Most three speeds were like this until the mid 60s. AMC held onto the little T-96 until 1972 in base model Gremlins and Hornets though... the last non-synchro first gear trannys used in passenger cars! I guess they were pretty darn cheap at that time...
	Frank Swygert

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/25/2021 at 7:17am
	You're at the point where most consider a V-8 upgrade, or another brand motor. An AMC V-8 will bolt in fairly easy, but again --you have to change the tranny. If just building a cruiser with a stock AMC 290-360 the rear axle will hold up fine. Start banging on it a lot and you'll break something before too long, or if you use a higher powered motor and big tires (can't get much over a 215 width in the stock wheel wells though -- but cheater slicks....). With skinny tires the tires break loose way before you break the axle, but the axle nuts will need to be re-torqued. In fact, you should do that even with a six -- it's been almost 60 years! Loosen the big nuts then torque back down to 250 ft/lbs. Might take 500 ft/lbs to loosen them, but stuck isn't the same as properly torqued! If you're considering a "re-power" take it over to the Frankenrambler section. If you just want a little more power for a reliable cruiser the AMC 2.5L four from a Cherokee (or 96-02 Dakota) is a great option, especially the 91-02 MPFI version. A 2WD 4.0L six from a Cherokee is a fantastic option too -- it has about as much power as a stock 1974 360 4V engine. Both of those keep it in the AMC family, but any four, V-6, or small block will fit. Longer I-6s like the Ford 300 might not fit, but would take the same mods as a 199/232. There is special short shaft water pump and pulley required for the 199/232 (only used on 65 Americans with 232 and CJ-5s with 232 -- NOT CJ-7s... they were slightly longer under the hood). Might not be an equivalent for the big Ford or a Chevy I-6. On that note, the Ford 200/250 I-6 is about the same length as the old 196 flat head/OHV engines and fits pretty easily. The 200 has about the same power as a 196 OHV, the 250 a little more.
	Frank Swygert

DragRacingSpirit Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: May/27/2009 Location: Mo Status: Offline Points: 903	Post Options Post Reply Quote DragRacingSpirit Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/26/2021 at 12:39pm
	I think that a 4.0L out of a 2wd jeep and the attached 3 speed overdrive would be a nice all AMC combo !
	Best 1/4 mile 8.99, 1/8 mile 5.71, 60 foot 1.27, no power adders

AMXRWB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/25/2013 Location: Midwest Status: Online Points: 1154	Post Options Post Reply Quote AMXRWB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/26/2021 at 1:15pm
	The original poster wants a non American Motors engine.

White70JavelinSST Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Aug/08/2012 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 4867	Post Options Post Reply Quote White70JavelinSST Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/26/2021 at 1:54pm
	With an adaptor any engine will bolt up
	70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/26/2021 at 2:06pm
	My next engine/trans set up in my favorite chassis, 1958 to 1963 Americans, is going to be the Toyota 22R. 4 cylinder fits easily in this chassis, which is very small, the later AMC six is a tight squeeze in a 64, and impossible in earlier Americans. Plentiful, easy to work on and get parts, and configurations from 140 hp carbed to 250 hp twin OHC turbl EFI, you choose or mix'n'match. The 195.6 OHV is becoming tough to make reliable due to lack of parts and machine shops with the knowledge to work with them.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/27/2021 at 8:00am
	The 4.0L and AW4 four speed auto (3+OD) is indeed a wonderful drivetrain! That's what I have in my 63 Classic. It's even better in the lighter American. It needs a 3.31-3.55 rear axle, which the flat-head with OD has anyway. I'd keep the original rear axle and just torque the axle nuts, have a driveshaft made. My assumption was that the original poster wanted something other than the old Rambler flat-head six, not necessarily another make engine entirely. The 196 OHV isn't that much better as far as parts and reliability any more -- just as TomJ mentioned. Now no one needs to get upset -- the 196 OHV can be a VERY reliable engine. But finding a used one in good condition is near impossible, and the cost to rebuild is high. Even then, you have to contend with some hard to find wear parts like the water pump. Daily driver around town? Fine -- not far to tow if necessary, but you better have backup transportation as it could take a week or two to get a water pump. At best it's a few days to get one, or a starter. Some parts are easy, but others take a few days to have delivered from an AMC/antique parts dealer. This is the main reason I went with a 4.0L Classic and sold my 63 American that I'd driven for 14 years.
	Frank Swygert

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct/27/2021 at 8:01am
	Tom, make sure you measure that 22R good width wise. That later models have an intake that sticks out to the side a good bit. An earlier carbed model will probably work. Are those easier to get than the Jeep 2.5L like WARBED used?
	Frank Swygert