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Will 304 mate up to a 4-Speed

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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 7:34am
Originally posted by DaemonForce DaemonForce wrote:

Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

You are so wrong.  304/360 do NOT use the same flywheel.  I found that out.   the only transmission that uses a bushing in the crank is the TH400.   None of the others use a bushing of any kind.  (The 250/287/327 Rambler engines are not part of this question so they dont apply)

Am I in some sort of universe where I'm only encountering Gen III stuff that is built wrong? I must have missed something somewhere because that seems to be the case if you can confirm something that doesn't work. Ermm
304 and 360s are balanced differently.  I had a 304 flywheel on a 360....  it vibrated.  and I found out that years ago.  Dont go by what the aftermarket says.  I just say it like it is.  I also have 401s with TH400s and TFs.  which is how I know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 7:37am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

The BW autos usually have a pilot bushing for centering the converter. Don't know about the TF stuff. They may use a thin bushing as well.
TH400 only.     I dont know about BW.   I would have to look.   I dont have any pre 72 stuff.{V8}.   Only thing I have that is pre 72 is that one 1969 Rambler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shannock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 9:28am
Ok, I do have the 304 flywheel. So I should be good to go. Thanks.
By the way, was the 4-speed ever an option bolted up to the 304 in the Javelin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 10:10am
The 304 was never available in US with BW T-10 Trans, only 3 speed manual.  Much later Maybe Concord, but definately Spirit and such had SR-4 bolted to 304 2V up to 1979.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 11:05am
At this point in time a 4spd behind a 304 is purely a yard option. T-4 from a Concord or an SM-465 top loader if you can find it. Maybe a T-176. Honestly I would pick an OD optioned trans for a street car. For the track I would pick a 3spd auto like a T-35 or T-12. I'm in the middle of converting an automatic to a manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by DaemonForce DaemonForce wrote:

At this point in time a 4spd behind a 304 is purely a yard option. T-4 from a Concord or an SM-465 top loader if you can find it. Maybe a T-176. Honestly I would pick an OD optioned trans for a street car. For the track I would pick a 3spd auto like a T-35 or T-12. I'm in the middle of converting an automatic to a manual.
SM465 is a truck trans for a chevy. wont fit the AMC V8.  A BW T35 for track?  really.  whats a T12?  a T-4 is a light duty trans.      1979 is the only year that the 304 had a 4 spd from the factory.   and its the SR4.  not a strong trans as the 6 cylinders also used it.  and Yeah I own a 1979 AMX with the 304 4spd.  and I have had the T176 in a Jeep.  and I had the SM 465 in a chevy truck--which is a Muncie CH 465.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by 401MATCOUPE 401MATCOUPE wrote:

The 304 was never available in US with BW T-10 Trans, only 3 speed manual.  Much later Maybe Concord, but definately Spirit and such had SR-4 bolted to 304 2V up to 1979.
304 4 spd only in 1979.  before 79, 304s were all automatics in the cars. at least 1977-78.  Jeep is another thing.  otherwise you are correct as 304s were 3spds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 7:41pm
You're not very creative are you? The SM465 has a spot behind the AMC 6 and 8 just like the T-18 has a spot in every Ford pickup with the 390 FE. It may not be a natural fit but can be made to work. Novak knows that. I would put a BW-35 to work at the track, yes. I'd have to tear it down and go through it but I'm also doing the same at the moment to a similar Ford transmission that is going to be handling some severe abuse this season. Weighs an anchor though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2017 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by DaemonForce DaemonForce wrote:

You're not very creative are you? The SM465 has a spot behind the AMC 6 and 8 just like the T-18 has a spot in every Ford pickup with the 390 FE. It may not be a natural fit but can be made to work. Novak knows that. I would put a BW-35 to work at the track, yes. I'd have to tear it down and go through it but I'm also doing the same at the moment to a similar Ford transmission that is going to be handling some severe abuse this season. Weighs an anchor though.
I dont do goofy things like grinding and breaking iron balls.   Been there done that.  Burned out on goofy things.  If it wont bolt on, I dont waste my time.  In general you dont save any money, and then you have something that only you want.   I know about Novak, and advance adapters.  and those adapters are very expensive as well. <<  and IMHO for the majority of AMCers they are not cost effective.  But when I answer a question, its to help people and most of them are into stock type stuff.   like swapping a 360 in place of a 6 cylinder.  I tell them what I do know.  Im willing to learn.  but I can tell you that a BW is a good tranny for street driving.  for high performance, forget it.  you can do some, but not much.  B&M quit making shift kits for BWs because the BWs would not hold up.  I stick with facts.   not opinions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2017 at 6:29am
Well, not a BW M-35 on the track, but one of the heavier duty BW autos for sure. The 35 will take a lot more punishment than people think, but I wouldn't abuse it that much! Air cooled only, and really only meant to be behind a 196. I think even the 199 got the M-36 (just a bit stronger... but may just have provision for a ATF cooler in addition to air...).

The important thing on the autos to remember is that if the converter has a stub shaft in front make sure it fits the hole in the crank snuggly. Should be an easy slide in fit with no binding, but doesn't have to spin. It's just for alignment. Without it the converter bolts are more likely to work loose though. No "nose" on the conveter -- no bushing. Since the converter doesn't turn in the bushing there doesn't need ot be a bushing if the nose fits the hole good.

Lots of manual tranny possibilities out there. If you have to go get a trans I'd use a T-5 from a early Mustang 5.0L. Look up "AMC T-5 swap" and you should find several pages with details.  Here's a good start: https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/adapters/engine-to-transmission/amc/ford-amc. Explains a lot, and gives some other options. I know the 79-86 bell has multiple trans patterns in it, apparently goes back to 1976. I used a 79 bell to put a 63 Classic T-96/OD behind a 4.0L. Worked well for a while, but soon became obvious a stronger trans was needed. Had to get a larger diameter bearing retainer, but it worked. The bell has the old three speed, newer three speed, and SR4/T-5 bolt patterns. Bearing retainer hole is the SR4/T-5 size.
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