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Whoa what a variety of old suspension bushings

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Whoa what a variety of old suspension bushings
    Posted: Aug/11/2019 at 7:38am
So, after looking at my control arms bushing condition, i decided to burn out the bushings and clean out the sleeves for the poly bushing kit.

Low and behold every arm had a different bushing style... it made some slight change ups for the work.

Here is the unknown manufacturer bushing peices parts for reference, to show not all bushings are made the same.

The tube with rubber surround was on an upper arm, while the large flange with grooves were on the other. The lower arms had two variances as well. One with a more substantial washer at the pressed in end.

So, if shopping for bushings online, be careful on pictures. I rather be at the counter for comparisons, to verify on the quality.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/11/2019 at 9:31pm
what is this "counter" you speak of. a mystery! you mean the bozos at AutoZone? or O'Reillys?

for what car?

i just got the correct control arm bushings from rockauto.com. i'm driving on them so i guess they're right. 1/2" center hole bushings are much easier to find than the old 11/16" parts! cheap too.


(I SWEAR TO $DIETY that i went to an oreillys, and asked for 3/4" and 5/8" heater hose. they asked, as always, "what car". i pointed at the rack, "just some of that stuff". he goes over, starts looking at the fuel and vacuum hoses above the big stuff on the rack. i repeated, "no, the big stuff, three quarter inch". still could not see it. i had to walk back and point with my hand, THIS and THIS.

not only dont know heater hose; ok, late model cars are all molded specialty stuff. but to not know three quarter inch, from  one quarter inch? WTF!!!!

sorry ranting, no help with bushings.

carry on.
)

1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/12/2019 at 5:17am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

what is this "counter" you speak of. a mystery! you mean the bozos at AutoZone? or O'Reillys?

for what car?

i just got the correct control arm bushings from rockauto.com. i'm driving on them so i guess they're right. 1/2" center hole bushings are much easier to find than the old 11/16" parts! cheap too.


(I SWEAR TO $DIETY that i went to an oreillys, and asked for 3/4" and 5/8" heater hose. they asked, as always, "what car". i pointed at the rack, "just some of that stuff". he goes over, starts looking at the fuel and vacuum hoses above the big stuff on the rack. i repeated, "no, the big stuff, three quarter inch". still could not see it. i had to walk back and point with my hand, THIS and THIS.

not only dont know heater hose; ok, late model cars are all molded specialty stuff. but to not know three quarter inch, from  one quarter inch? WTF!!!!

sorry ranting, no help with bushings.

carry on.
)



Understood aboot counter people not worth a grain of salt.
Fortunately, the manager and two others who are in their mid to late 40s know well enough to assist with some unknowns in my past instances.


I admit rockauto does have a lot of AMC product, and can be a great go to source, as i only have had 1 conflict with my purchase there. Though to me no source is truely perfect, especially now these days.

I blame it on stocking stocking issues by college peeps, and invetory rearangement practices. When the counter person cant properly identity differences between a Ford starter solinoid, and an AMC one... a part number that has been revised in the system or incorrectly placed in stock, will be more of the troubles, in automated world.

As for the bushings... all were correct for fit and function. Just they all were different between design.

One type of upper arm bushing had no integral flange/washer on the tube, just a sleeve.

The lower arm bushings were close in appearance, but one had noticably larger and thicker washer/flange design, when parts have been disected and set side by side.

Of all the bushings in the small collection that i removed, the lower bushings, would be hardest to quickly identify as being quality over other existing similar parts. The upper bushing with just rubber surrounded sleeve would be the easiest to identify and pass on.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CHAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/12/2019 at 3:35pm
I had a woman at an Advance Auto stare at me weird for a long moment before turning her screen and pushing the mouse into my hand before just walking away when I asked for a bell style oil pressure sensor for my Javelin.
72 Javelin SST P code 360/auto/AC/rear defrost /Go Pack/Polar White w blue cord interior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/12/2019 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:

As for the bushings... all were correct for fit and function. Just they all were different between design.

One type of upper arm bushing had no integral flange/washer on the tube, just a sleeve.

The lower arm bushings were close in appearance, but one had noticably larger and thicker washer/flange design, when parts have been disected and set side by side.

Of all the bushings in the small collection that i removed, the lower bushings, would be hardest to quickly identify as being quality over other existing similar parts. The upper bushing with just rubber surrounded sleeve would be the easiest to identify and pass on.


for the last 15 years many of the Rambler (not AMC) bushings that i've bought -- quality parts, AC Delco, Moog (back when), etc -- indeed do not have the dished washers and the spacer washer attached. those are crimped onto the factory bushings. i grind the swage off and install them on the new bushings.

around 2005 i wrote this page on the 63 classic https://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/Front-suspension/index.html and there i had to transfer the washers too. and just did on the 68 american a week ago.

there are design variations in the bushings for sure. the AMC factory lower inner bushing for 68 american had a center spacer that was like a big spool; the steel barely fit through the arm and a PITA to remove when the rubber's gone all bad. the replacement (AC DELCO) part has a much smaller "washer", but it does cover the slotted hole in the unibody and seems to work fine.

i too like all my parts to be the SAME! at least!

1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 4:16am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:

As for the bushings... all were correct for fit and function. Just they all were different between design.

One type of upper arm bushing had no integral flange/washer on the tube, just a sleeve.

The lower arm bushings were close in appearance, but one had noticably larger and thicker washer/flange design, when parts have been disected and set side by side.

Of all the bushings in the small collection that i removed, the lower bushings, would be hardest to quickly identify as being quality over other existing similar parts. The upper bushing with just rubber surrounded sleeve would be the easiest to identify and pass on.


for the last 15 years many of the Rambler (not AMC) bushings that i've bought -- quality parts, AC Delco, Moog (back when), etc -- indeed do not have the dished washers and the spacer washer attached. those are crimped onto the factory bushings. i grind the swage off and install them on the new bushings.

around 2005 i wrote this page on the 63 classic https://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/Front-suspension/index.html and there i had to transfer the washers too. and just did on the 68 american a week ago.

there are design variations in the bushings for sure. the AMC factory lower inner bushing for 68 american had a center spacer that was like a big spool; the steel barely fit through the arm and a PITA to remove when the rubber's gone all bad. the replacement (AC DELCO) part has a much smaller "washer", but it does cover the slotted hole in the unibody and seems to work fine.

i too like all my parts to be the SAME! at least!



Great info on the parts variations, and what to do to correct. So it looks like top names may not have gone the extra mile in reproducing a true oem part. To me missing washers is a big miss, but i did not see any odd wear on the old part, nor on the upper arm.

Yes, i would try to recreate the assebly as best as possible, and your trick would be one to do. Problem is you get a bloody mess having to get them things free out of thr bushing. Ha!

I still have my bushing pieces... rubbish pickup today. Will take the better washers for one side, set asside for later to clean up and keep for anyone in need when trying to keep proper fit and functuon with the never ending variances in bushing build quality.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 9:10pm
i'm now like a crazy troll, clutching my arm-load of grubby, rotten, worn out greasy dead suspension bushings, NO YOU CANNOT HAVE THEM THEY ARE NOT JUNK GO AWAY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THESE ARE VALUABLE THEY ARE NOT TRASH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo......


1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 5:43am
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

i'm now like a crazy troll, clutching my arm-load of grubby, rotten, worn out greasy dead suspension bushings, NO YOU CANNOT HAVE THEM THEY ARE NOT JUNK GO AWAY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THESE ARE VALUABLE THEY ARE NOT TRASH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo......




Ha! I understand that 100% its crazy that most if all upper arm bushings are tube without washer type. And the few lowers i see have the small washer type.

Now here is something... When i removed my upper bushing centers, the inner washers had very little or no rubber showing between sleeve and washer edge. That may be impossible to reproduce with just adding the old washer, since it seems that there may be a wider width variance in design over washer design bushings.

Just a thought... just leaves a question, as I dont think anyone has come up with a thread on a proper how to, with such a fix for bushings without washers.

Billd has a bushing install, but no fix thread.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 7:57am
I just skimmed this thread, but for 68-9 AMX, Javelin, Rambler (and probably others) UCA:
AMC only serviced the part as an assembled UCA with the bushing and washers installed. At the time this was a ~$4 part so it didn't make sense to sell a bushing with all that's involved to change it. The bushings and washers were never available from AMC. TRW, and others, sold the UCA bushings over the years- only bushings. I have never seen the washers for sale new except for a few "walked out of the factory" sets on Ebay -long ago. So you have to reuse the old washers. Not a big deal but plan ahead. The washers are swaged on and it's an involved process to recreate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 10:17pm
ahh... thanks steve_p... makes perfect sense. we forget that the aftermarket solves problems, and not only reproduces factory parts.

304-dude, the uppers indeed have rubber only between the outer shell edges; the inner spacer protrudes. it flatly requires washers to space it out. there are THREE "washers" on each upper bushing that need to be transferred from the old OEM part to the new aftermarket part: the two outer cupped washers, and on one side (outer? i forget) a thick plain-style spacer.

i grind off the crimp on the factory parts, but just hand-assemble them onto the new bushings, and hold it in place with my fingers to insert. it's a friction fit; the rubber needs a bit of compression. i use a two pound hammer (tapping, not pounding really).

the cup washers guide the bushing assembly into the unibody pocket. the fat spacer washer is what causes the tension. the cup washer seats on the step of the inner spacer, and keeps that spacer from entering the hole in the unibody.

i've learned to put the raw arm halfs into each pocket, and assemble the trunnion onto the arms that are now bolted into the car. i used to assemble the two arm halves onto the trunnion then wrestle them into the pockets, but that's a PITA because now i have to worry about all six washers. it's MUCH easier half arm at a time...



1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

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