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Which valve body and pan to use |
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Texas275
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Dec/18/2013 Location: Forney, Tx Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Posted: Mar/29/2014 at 6:59pm |
Did my first 727 rebuild today, by taking the tail shaft out of a 68 dodge 727,and putting it in a 83 Jeep 727. The 68 came out if an old challenger, and I found the rear band to be metal to metal. I am using all of the internal parts of the 83 except for the tail shaft.
When I took the pan off of the 68 it was twice the size (deeper) tan the 83. Also the valve body on the 68 had a gold plate between the halves. When I took the pan off of the 83 it looked like I expected a stock valve body to look. It was all bare metal. When I compared the two valve bodys there were a couple of places where the holes were different. I have attached some pictures. I am guessing the 68 (gold one) was some sort of performance valve body but I couldn't find any markings one it. Could yall take a look and see if you an tell me the difference in the two. If the 68 is a performance Valve can some one tell me what it is, and if I should use it, and should I use the deeper pan. Tom |
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BassBoat
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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a quick internet search says that 1000042 is a plate from a B&M shift improver kit.
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Texas275
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Dec/18/2013 Location: Forney, Tx Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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I looked on the inter web but nothing showed up for me.
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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the gold plate generally means shift kit. not for sure but is the 83 a LU? if so the valve body will be different. the deeper pan? is it stock looking? painted black? if it is, probably off a 518. to use it, you have to have the spacer for the filter.. I know that starting in 1972, the valve bodies have a part throttle kick down. 1971 and earlier dont have that.
Edited by purple72Gremlin - Mar/30/2014 at 12:14am |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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Texas275
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Dec/18/2013 Location: Forney, Tx Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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So it looks like it is a b&m shift kit 10226. Both trans were non lock ups so it should work. But it appears that there is a rod that goes in the middle plunger(can't remember what it's called). The rod was missing in the 68. Any one have an idea how long the rod was supposed to be? I guess I'll call b&m tomorrow and see if they can send me an instruction sheet on it
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Texas275
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Dec/18/2013 Location: Forney, Tx Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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So neither B&M nor TCI have a shift improver kit for the 1983 727 going in my Jav. TCIs kits go up to 1979, and B&Ms only go up to 1977. Does anyone know if the valve bodys are the same in 79 and 83? It is a non lock up.
The deeper pan that came off of the 68 trans is painted black, but there was no filter or spacer in it.
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Snotty
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/28/2014 Location: Chico, CA Status: Offline Points: 1247 |
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The 727 was not made in '83. What you have should be a 904/988. This could be the reason for the small differences you are seeing in the two valve bodies, regardless of the shift kit. The transmissions are similar but not the same. You might need to find a vb out of a another 904. (Should not be a problem as they were used in every Mopar M Body through '89 - Fifth Avenues, Furys, and Diplomats.)
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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You have two transmissions defined as a torqueflite, one built in apparently 1979 and the other built in what seems to be 1983 and you are asking a forum that generally is discussing that antiquated Borg Warner transmission that had a reputation of being unreliable at best and was no longer being used in 1972 and turns up their nose for the most part at the later 904's with a lock up torque converter version which really is quite a neat little transmission a technical question concerning those.
I am not trying to create a cheap shot here and I am sure some one may be able to answer your question but and there is a few buts. A transmission used in a truck, that is the Jeep generally has some unique characteristics that do not show up in a car. And I don't think you are going to get a real good answer. I have a Chrysler 1975 service manual in front of me. I am not sure when Chrysler started using the lock up converter, but the AMC manual I have for 1980 cautions about using much of anything between the lock up and non-lock up 904's and 998's that they used then. I thought Chrysler started using lock up transmissions in 1975 and AMC using the same ones in 1977 but I am probably wrong. But the 1975 manual from Chrysler says this: Transmission operational requirements are different for each vehicle and engine combination. And some internal parts will be different to provide for this. There for when replacing parts, refer to the seven digit part number stamped on the left hand side of the transmission oil pan flange. I think you can take that at face value along with the physical difference between the two valve bodies you already have AND the parts availability that you have discovered by aftermarket performance vendors that the odds are very high you can not change over the valve body. Now do I know that for sure? No. But then again I am not trying to sell you anything. So I have no reason to give you biased information that you may want to hear rather than what you need to hear. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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Texas275
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Dec/18/2013 Location: Forney, Tx Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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I must admit I am speculating on the date of the Jeep trans as 1983 since that is the year of engine that was attached to it, and it has "83" cast into the valve body. I sure hope its a 727, its identical to the 1968 727 that I took the tail shaft from, which has "68" cast into its valve body. The tailshaft fit right into the "1983" when I mocked everything back up. Both trannys have splines to the end of the input shaft which should be a non-lockup. I am unable to find any literature that lets me lookup the number stamped into the Jeep trans to try and figure out the exact year. The motor and trans were not in a vehicle when I bough it and the guy did not know what it came out of other than a Jeep. My thinking was if I had a valve body with a shift improver in it, I would use it. If it would work. Since no one is able to say weither it will work or not, I have decided to go with the valve body that came out of the "1983" since I know that is where it came from. I was just looking to put a shift improver kit in it while I have it apart. But since I cannot confirm the year model of it, I guess it will go back in as it sits. After it's cleaned of course.
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