What voltage goes to the intake nanifold heater?

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   Hey guys and gals, goofy question. I have an 83 258 in my 80 jeep. And the thing is a rough and rich running son of female doggy untill it warms up. I got the motor out of a concord wagon and removed all the egr and vac junk. And installed a 2100 carb.

What I'm thinking is that the intake had an electric heater that would help atomze the gas in winter and cool days. It and the electric choke used to be switched on by the oil pressure sender. I have removed the electric oil pressure sender. My jeep has a mechanical guage. 

So what i was wondering is if it used a full 12v? Because if it did I'll just rig a flip switch up on the dash for it. So on cold days, like now, i could turn it on to help things out. Then once it's warm I'll just toggle it off.

If it was a different voltage what was it? That way i can reduce it down and use it.

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raser13 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/11/2009 Location: st.louis,mo,usa Status: Offline Points: 1003	Post Options Post Reply Quote raser13 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: What voltage goes to the intake nanifold heater? Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 1:21pm
	Hey guys and gals, goofy question. I have an 83 258 in my 80 jeep. And the thing is a rough and rich running son of female doggy untill it warms up. I got the motor out of a concord wagon and removed all the egr and vac junk. And installed a 2100 carb. What I'm thinking is that the intake had an electric heater that would help atomze the gas in winter and cool days. It and the electric choke used to be switched on by the oil pressure sender. I have removed the electric oil pressure sender. My jeep has a mechanical guage. So what i was wondering is if it used a full 12v? Because if it did I'll just rig a flip switch up on the dash for it. So on cold days, like now, i could turn it on to help things out. Then once it's warm I'll just toggle it off. If it was a different voltage what was it? That way i can reduce it down and use it.


uncljohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncljohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 2:11pm
	Rather than a switch put a relay in, it will be far more reliable as it may draw a bit of current. And as long as your are doing that it might be smart to put an idiot light in that says you left if on too. 12Vdc
	70 390 5spd Donohue 74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam

Pdok Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pdok Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 2:20pm
	Quick answer, yes, 12V. Problem is, you have to trigger it to switch off somehow, which was part of the original design. Oil pressure told it there was a reason to switch on, temp told it to switch off. It's a decent system. A dash switch would be fine, just need to remember to turn it off, and use a switched 12V source so it isn't sitting there draining battery. There should be a water passage in the intake that eventually circulates warm water. That's a good thing to keep hooked up. Did you hook 12V back to the electric choke? Hot when key is in Run? That's more important than intake heater, but they can work together. I ran a 2100 for quite a while, on a jeep intake with no intake heater hooked up, just elec choke and water passages. I drove in sub-freezing Oklahoma weather and it was still easy to start, only a tiny bit cold-natured on the coldest days. You might make sure your choke is adjusted properly, so it isn't way rich or lean. Of course, all the other typical problems should be eliminated, timing, plug gaps, distributor vac advance hookup, vac leaks, etc. Carb in good shape? Check down the horn with a flashlight to make sure there's no dribbling liquid fuel while it's running. Does it bog or hesitate on acceleration after it gets warm? Idles OK when warm? Need to get your idle mixture set right, too, but that's pretty forgiving on a 2100.
	76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.

raser13 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/11/2009 Location: st.louis,mo,usa Status: Offline Points: 1003	Post Options Post Reply Quote raser13 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 2:51pm
	The 2100 that i got frome the junk yard had one of the old heat tube off the ehaust manifold set ups. And since the stock electric one came from the oil pressure switch. I stayed with the tube design. Just got one of those aftermarket hose clamp the pipe to the manifold kits. The 2100 has just been rebuilt, plugs are new and gapped right, vac advance is hooked up, timming is set, the only other vac right now goes between the valve cover and the carb and i definitely left the water lines hooke up in the intake. Some one was thinking when they came up with that one. I've been dialing in the carb lately and have it leaned back as far as i dare. The only time it runs rough and rich is when you start up in cold weather. It starts right up. Just runs like poo till everything warms up. Once warm runs like a champ and the gas smell goes away. That's why i want to get the heater going again and see if it helps out. The idiot light is a good add on. As well as hooking it to a switched power. Might add a switched relay back into the system once i run it a bit and see if that helps out. Why throw all that money at a test. Thanks for all the input and info. I'll rig something up this weekend. We're having a heat wave. It'll be fourty. Better to work in than the 19 we've been having.


uncljohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncljohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/22/2016 at 11:53pm
	Keep in mind while doing this, almost any "hot rod" modified engine with an aftermarket intake manifold is prone to exhibiting this type of behavior. Air gap intakes are typical of the problem. Some of the less "performance" oriented intake manifolds will have water passages in them to help warm them up. I have an air gap manifold on my 390 with a Carter AFB and it runs good cold or warm but it is not driven when the temperature is around freezing that often. But it is a hobby car. The engine in my Hornet uses a Chinese knock of an Edelbrock Air Gap and it is a Cold Blooded Beasty until it gets warm. Maybe carefully retuning it will make it better, it is not on the road yet. My I-6 Spirit is a turn key driver, but it is port fuel injected. So it runs better. I have a 232 on an engine stand with an Offenhauser intake and a Carter AFB. I do not know what it will do when installed, but again the engine is slated for something that is a hobby rather than a daily driver. Edited by uncljohn - Jan/22/2016 at 11:56pm
	70 390 5spd Donohue 74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 9:31am
	What John said. That and you're just used to modern EFI "crank and go" cars that don't need warming up first. It was a bit irritating driving the old Jeep J-10 (258 six) I had at first. Hadn't driven a carbed car in cold weather in quite a few years when I first got the Jeep! It needed five minutes to get good warmed up on cold days. ALL carbed cars do! That heater might help and gain you another minute or two warm-up time, but you really just need to get used to driving it carefully for the first five minutes. It will warm up faster moving than sitting and idling, even EFI cars warm up faster while under a load. They run a lot better because the computer does a better job of managing fuel delivery for conditions, but it still takes 3-5 minutes for the heater (motor) to get good warm.
	Frank Swygert

FSJunkie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742	Post Options Post Reply Quote FSJunkie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 4:14pm
	It's a water hated intake manifold. Hot water from the thermostat housing passes through the intake manifold before it heads over to the heater. I'd thread a thermal-electric switch into the water passage in the intake manifold to switch the electric manifold heater on when coolant temperature (and subsequently manifold temperature is below 170 degrees. Once the water heats up along with the manifold, the heater would kick off. I'm pretty sure that's also how the factory did it.
	1955 Packard 1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited

raser13 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/11/2009 Location: st.louis,mo,usa Status: Offline Points: 1003	Post Options Post Reply Quote raser13 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/23/2016 at 8:57pm
	Yep stock water heated intake. And I'm used to a carbed car. I thing I've only had two fi cars. And i didn't own them that long. I do let it warm up for about five to ten minutes sitting out in the parking lot. Wich usually is enough for every other carbed car ive owned. This thing likes to take about another ten or so minutes of drive time till it comes to it's senses and smooths out where it belongs. It's just like me and doesn't want to get out of a nice warm bed on a cold winters morning. But i think the intake heater might just be the extra cup of coffee to wake it up all the way.


FSJunkie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742	Post Options Post Reply Quote FSJunkie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/24/2016 at 12:32am
	From the factory you could start them, wait a couple seconds (like 5-10), put them in gear all ready to go. As long as you didn't completely stomp on them they'd be smooth and wouldn't stall through the entire warm up. Water heated manifolds, electric manifold heaters, thermostatic air cleaners, mechanical heat risers, and complex carburetor chokes did that for you.
	1955 Packard 1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/24/2016 at 9:00am
	If you're into electronics, or know someone who is, it wouldn't be hard to rig a 555 timer that would stay on for like 2-3 minutes then cut off. I couldn't design the circuit though. Use the timer to control a relay for the heater. Wouldn't hurt to run the heater for a couple minutes every time the car was cranked, even in warm weather. I'd make the circuit activate every time it got power -- turn off after 120 seconds and stay off until power cycled again. Then put a toggle switch in the power line so you could just turn it off during warm weather. Should be a simple enough circuit...
	Frank Swygert