Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
What kind of fan are you running? |
Post Reply | Page <12345> |
Author | |
one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I personally think to many guy`s get caught up in “Keeping up with the Jone’s”..I agree electric fan`s can make more power...But it`s hard to beat a true flex fan..I work on a lot of classic cars and i can`t tell you how many guy`s switch to an aluminum radiator and electric fan only to have the car run hot in traffic...The guy`s i get to switch back to a flex fan with the correct fan to radiator spacing can`t thank me enough...Big block chevys are the worst for this problem..For me it`s electric fans and pumps for the track and mechanical for the street...Went up against a LS powered Chevelle the other night running e85 and injected it came in at 560 to the wheels on our dyno maybe my fan held me back but still got him by 2 car lengths in my wagon....LOL
|
|
68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
|
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9081 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes, but... the OP wanted to know about what electric fan is being used. Also as you pointed out there is proper setup for both mechanical and electric fan setups. Both can be made to properly cool and function reliably. The main reason electric fans are main stream is for the ease of assembly at the factory and they are a wee more efficient in engine operation. Plus they do a better job at controlling cooling than a engine mounted fan in some instances. The trouble with electric is, obtaining properly sized fan with a proper fitting shroud, and setting up how to control it. Not so easy as it seems if there is no direct fit electric fans for AMC/Rambler, and many wire thing up differently with the sensors and or controls. So with a bit of trial and error, electric fans can be trouble free and very effective, just the trouble if any, is that it needs voltage to operate, and a safe circuit that will not effect other circuits for vehicle operation. For some AMC cars, the Ford Contour dual fans fit and function well enough to do a very good job when properly setup. Unlike obtaining a big single fan that does not properly vent air through for proper fan pull. Plus multiple smaller fans use less current, and change CFM if needed by operating two, just one or none. Edited by 304-dude - Jun/17/2017 at 6:19pm |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Online Points: 6199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Since I've been using electric fans over 30 years, I'd hardly consider it as keeping up with the Jone's.
It tried it, it worked well, though there was some do's and don'ts . I've got it pretty refined by now, and I think I'll stick with it. I've never considered any car as it comes from the factory as perfection, I just see it as a base on which to build a real car.
|
|
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
|
|
one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I agree with you 100% but the org. poster is using a mechanical fan and was asking what type of fan`s do we use...When you shop for an electric fan 75% of the buyer`s have no clue what size they need...So after there star struck by the weld`s on the aluminum radiator they just buy what fit`s..there are many times were the correct electric isn`t shinny enough or to big and that`s when the problem`s start....If it takes 20+Hp to run a fan that will keep your engine cool how do they expect a fan with 1 inch blades and a 1/2 Hp motor to do the same job...I would like to see a show talking about CFM in volume at slower speeds vrs theses fans the whine and move air to rapidly to remove the heat from your radiator...By no means am i saying electric fans don`t work i just think the average guy has no idea what to buy...Same with transmission cooler`s..brakes...Carburetors..ect.
|
|
68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
|
|
tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Online Points: 6199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That is a good point there, the mechanical fan saps 20 hp according to the TV show, but someone expecting the same cooling results from a 1/2 hp electric motor is not being realistic.
I'll have to do the math on a Taurus electric fan and see just how much hp it is rated at. If you'll notice most electric motors are sold by their starting power, not their steady running hp. I know from circle track racing where we have to deal with long term heat build-up, sealing the front end and installing ductwork so all the air possible is directed through the radiator core is just as important as the fan , and radiator. I've opened to hood and looked at several older car's radiator installation, on a lot the air has a easier path around the radiator than through it.
Edited by tyrodtom - Jun/17/2017 at 8:57pm |
|
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
|
|
one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
What is nice about most modern day electric fan set up`s (factory) is they run a fan controller that can duty cycle the voltage to make it multiple speeds so it can be running on low and you never hear it nor does it effect idle..charging..and light dimming..they also run a much bigger pitch on the blades then most aftermarket electric fans.. early Toyota`s ran there fan`s off the power steering pump with fluid
|
|
68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
|
|
Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Actually that is the point, a small electric fan will do the job with less than 1/2 hp. That's why the factories have been doing it for years. A mechanical fan designed for idle is so utterly wrong at rpm it is an insult to engineering. Unbelievable power wasting eggbeater. It cannot possible be effective, and if it could flow that much air it's not needed because of the 70 mph wind coming through the rad from the simple movement of the car.
There might be the concept of sticking the fan out the front of the car to go for a propeller effect!
|
|
Buzzman72
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/15/2009 Location: Southern IN Status: Offline Points: 2713 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I had a '91 Ford Tempo with an electric fan that stopped working. As long as I never went thru Mickey D's drive-thru and kept most of my driving on the highway, cooling wasn't a problem. This taught me that if you have a cooling problem at highway speeds, you have a flow problem--could be either coolant flow or air flow.
Another thing to consider is something I learned from owning an import with a factory electric fan. On the cheap imports that offered dealer-installed air conditioning, the a/c kit came with a TWO-fan setup. The second fan ONLY kicked on when the a/c was running. What all this suggests to me is that a properly engineered dual electric fan setup could be beneficial, especially if the second fan is set up as two-stage system and only kicks on when the first fan needs the help. Running a/c on your ride? Automatic trans? They add to the load on the cooling system, because you're cooling refrigerant in the condenser and ATF, as well as keeping the engine coolant cool. At that point, air flow is just as important as coolant flow. |
|
Buzzman72...void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, and alcohol may intensify any side effects.
|
|
tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Online Points: 6199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Even the electric fan, when it's not powered , slows the airflow through the radiator core a little, just not nearly as much as a engine powered fan.
Where i've got a aluminum radiator and then black fan blades, i've got out of the truck just after it stopped and noticed the fan was still turning, even though I didn't have it turned on before I stopped. If you're moving, those fan blades are turning , powered or not. Just think of the WW2 multi engined bombers. When they got engine damage and had to cut the power, if they couldn't also feather ( neutral pitch) the prop blades so the propeller didn't spin, that windmilling propeller presented a tremendous amount of extra drag. So the ultimate fan would be a electric fan, with blades that had adjustable pitch, so they could go to neutral pitch and not spin, and so not slow the airflow when the fan wasn't needed.
|
|
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
|
|
Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Keep in mind the dyno test is also showing the effect of removing rotating mass when fitting an electric fan ... similar to a dyno showing hp gains with an aluminum flywheel over steel.
Since fan hp varies with the cube of speed, I doubt during cruise you would see more than a few hp savings in electric over the factory flex fan or clutch fan ... but still significant enough to consider and of course depends on your cruise rpm. Biggest gain in efficiency is likely fitting a larger or higher capacity radiator that needs less airflow for efficient cooling. Then you could fit a smaller fan. Fitting a larger fan to fix a cooling issue is the worst thing for efficiency... assuming there aren't space or other restrictions from fititng a higher capacity radiator. A few years ago my clutch fan failed. Only noticed when it started rattling loose and at idle temperature would very slowly climb (low load at idle so doesn't need much cooling). It had the larger rad normally fit with A/C (at least in Canada they fit larger radiators with A/C). I refit the factory flex fan and only noticeable differences were more fan noise and very slight decrease in fuel economy... although it had been running with basically no fan for some time. Expect cost and knowledge of what parts are needed to fit electric to an AMC to work effectively are the primary issues. Hope this helps,RD
|
|
Post Reply | Page <12345> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |