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What if it were cut? |
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waltl 
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Joined: Sep/07/2012 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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 Topic: What if it were cut?Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 12:53pm |
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A hypothetical question for the group.
Is it possible to have a V8 crancshaft cut to accept the TF adapter ring (early V8 cranks pre 1972) but still use the BW trans and torque converter? In this scenario, we would have the V8 crank machined to fit the TF converter adapter ring but not actually install the ring. In this situation, a TF trans could be installed at a later date by removing the BW, installing adapter ring, and then installing TF transmission. What would be the adverse effects on the BW trans and torque converter in this scenario? Doesent some of the pilot bushing bore remain after machining a crank for the TF adapter ring? Would there be enough pilot bore remaining to engage the stub on the front of the BW cnverter? Is it really necessary to have the converter pilot in the crank? Is there that much tolerance on the flex plate bolt holes that the converter would be so far out of concentricity that it would cause failure of the converter and seals? Opinions welcomed and appreciated. Walt
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Rebel Machine
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Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Western Il Status: Offline Points: 5122 |
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Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 5:28pm |
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If you're wanting to make the crankshaft accept both the Torque Flite and Borg/Warner torque converters I think all you need to do is machine the crank's pilot bearing to fit the 1972-later T-10 pilot bushing since the Torque Flite and T-10 were the transmission choices. I believe the T-10 input shaft and Borg/Warner torque converter centering snout diameters are the same.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. -Steve- |
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FuzzFace2
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Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10356 |
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Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 7:15pm |
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Steve,
If I understand you the B/W snout and T10 are the same dia., I do not know if this is true or not but looking at them it looks like they are. If so then install a pilot bushing and it may work? Now I said may work because you would need to deal with how to bolt the B/W converter to the TF flex plate as I don’t think the holes will line up. The other thing you would need to check is with the snout in the bushing and the converter bolted to the flex plate that the converter is not too far in or out of the trany pump. I had that issue with my custom made TH400 converter, when bolted to the flex it was pulled out of the trany pump. Dave ---- |
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waltl
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Joined: Sep/07/2012 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 8:59pm |
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SO, I have a 70 390 with auto trans car. I am rebuilding the 390 and am wondering if, while it is apart, I could have the rear crankshaft flange machined for the TF torque converter BUT, install the original BW automatic when I get the engine back in the car.
The idea is to have the engine ready to accept the TF adapter ring and TF trans at a later date should I want to. Thank you for the info provided so far. Walt |
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purple72Gremlin
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Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 9:10pm |
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Dont think you can do that. Its either one or the other. If it was a standard, it wouldnt make much difference.
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carnuck
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Joined: Mar/31/2010 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 3942 |
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Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 10:15pm |
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The crank needs to be done before assembling the motor. You will need to make a custom crank pilot for the BW auto.
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Rebel Machine
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Posted: Jan/13/2015 at 6:50am |
I don't think you'd need a custom crank pilot since the Torque Flite auto and T-10 auto were offered '72-later. The crank pilot hole for the Torque Flite would be the correct size for the T-10 pilot bushing from that era. And if (I believe) the Borg/Warner torque converter pilot is the same size as the T-10 input shaft the '72-later T-10 pilot bushing could be used to center the Borg/Warner converter. Fuzz is right, there is a bit more to the swap. Both the TF and B/W flexplates would need to be balanced to the crank. If you use the original AMC flexplates & converters the depth of the pump snout in the transmission should be correct. -Steve- |
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Rebel Machine
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Posted: Jan/13/2015 at 6:56am |
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Just went out and measured the T-10 pilot input shaft diameter and B/W M12 torque converter pilot diameters. Both measure 0.75".
-Steve- |
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waltl
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Joined: Sep/07/2012 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: Jan/16/2015 at 9:40am |
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Steve
I tend to agree with you. The BW auto pilot stub on the converter engages the crankshaft pilot bushing bore. Machining the crank for the TF torque converter ring does not remove this bore. Therefore, it would seem to me that it could be possible to have all the machine work done to accept the TF converter but not install the adapter ring. Then, assemble the correct BW flex plate and install the trans and all should align and fit. If the engine were externally balanced,you would have to have a TF flex plate balanced to your engine combination before you do finally assembly of the engine, otherwise it would be very difficult to know that the TF converter balance is correct. In my situation, I am internally balancing the 390 so no mater what flex plate I use, I just have to remove any weld on weights from it before installing. Seems simple enough to this simple person. Walt
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FuzzFace2
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Posted: Jan/18/2015 at 3:27pm |
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Walt, Been a wile IIRC the TF flex centers on the center of the crank like the flywheels do of that time.
I do not BW flex centers but I am the flex I have has a vary small hole in the center so don't think it centers n the center like the TF flex does. I know the early (BW) cranks center flywheels on the outer edge of the crank but thought the flex plates are smooth on the mounting side? If there is nothing that centers the BW flex plate then I can see getting the machine work needed for the TF flex plate and come up with a bushing to center the BW converter and just keep an eye on how far in/out the converters are from the pumps on each trany when bolted up. Dave ---- ps it might be easier to setup for the TF flex plate and have a TF drilled for the BW converter as there is what some do for replacing the weak TH400 flex - drill a TF for the TH400 converter - as it is a solid center plate like the BW plate I have. |
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75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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carnuck wrote: