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What camshaft for my 258

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pdok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 7:15pm
Oh, this occurred to me.

If you did go with the eBay head, you could call the guy and specify the Mopar springs and cam specs over the phone and at least get that much done up front.

The ad looks legit enough, but the price is pretty steep, so it just seems like eBay inflation.
76 Grem X 258/904 w/ Cheetah VBody/Jeep intake/MC2150/ Clifford Header
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacer Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 3:03am
what about any of clifford camshafts kits??

http://www.cliffordperance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=92HCKLR&Category_Code=J258 - 97-2041-K. 272 Hyd Cam & Kit - Low/Mid Range
http://www.cliffordperance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=92HCKMRTC&Category_Code=J258 - 97-2081- 280 Hyd Cam & Kit - Mid Range Torque Cam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 5:11am
For gas mileage go with any low/mid range cam. The Clifford 97-2021-K Jeep & AMC 199/232/258 Cams & Kit 264H would be an even better mileage choice. The 280 is pushing it as far as lift with stock springs, it's right at the limit with 0.498 lift. 
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacer Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 6:01am
oki thanks :)

can you tell me what the difference is one this 2 cams?

http://www.cliffordperance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=97-2081-K&Category_Code=J258 - 97-2081-K 280 Hyd Cam & Kit 

http://www.cliffordperance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=92HCKMRTC&Category_Code=J258 - 97-2081- 280 Hyd Cam & Kit - Mid Range Torque Cam 

and witch one i should pick for my car...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 7:00am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

For gas mileage go with any low/mid range cam. The Clifford 97-2021-K Jeep & AMC 199/232/258 Cams & Kit 264H would be an even better mileage choice. The 280 is pushing it as far as lift with stock springs, it's right at the limit with 0.498 lift. 


I certainly can't complain about my cam - I mean and Eagle with 24 mpg average with most of it in-town commuting miles with only 10 of each trip being highway, at 45 mpg speed limit?
That's AVERAGE over 2 tanks. And it's got plenty of low-end. Can take off in second gear, and it takes a bit to "lug" it. (of course shaving .020 off the head didn't hurt)

Frank - how did you get so deep in knowledge about the early 6s and the very old Ramblers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 9:15am
By messing with and driving them for 14 years... that was 196's -- L-head and OHV. Driving an L-head for a few years as a daily driver convinced me that I don't want another one... not as a daily driver anyway. Maybe a bit hopped up with a small turbo in a gas mileage car.... but then I think that would just be to see how far I could go with it. Most of that time I drove a 63 American with the 196. MUCH better as a daily driver!! I built a 170-175 hp 195.6, but the long stroke hampered it more than anything. I'd messed with friends 232s and 258s (and AMC V-8s) all along, didn't build my first until my 99 stroker. I mean for myself -- helped friends build a few before then. I've always been a fan of the underdog work horse I-6!

The biggest reason I got so deep in AMC history and engineering is that I couldn't keep a bunch of cars. USAF for 24 years -- 1983-2007. Can't keep much and be ready to move every four years! I didn't have to, but may have had to move at anytime with six months notice. I could study and help others though. Couldn't find a lot of info on Ramblers, so I started collecting enough to write a book. Self-published two -- one around 85, the other in 91. Didn't sell many, just a few hundred copies, but I probably made as much as if I'd have had a big publisher print 100,000. Then I started my little magazine. That was initially a vehicle to improve book #2 and publish again, but the magazine sort of took over. Don't know if I'll ever publish the book again. If I just do a major edit/improve I could do it within a year or two, but I had originally decided to do an entire re-write -- essentially a new book. Oh well!

Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread -- will end this and make another post on the cams...

Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 9:33am
The two numbers appear to be the same thing. You'll have to call Clifford and see if there is a difference. You also need to figure out what you want to do with the car. One of the descriptions states "peak hp at 5300 rpm". If this is a cruiser, forget that cam!

The Clifford 272 is much better for a street car -- 60% of peak torque off idle, max hp at 3500 rpm. Most cruising is in the 2000-2500 rpm range with a six (should be anyway, higher rpm just burns more fuel). You should only hit 3000-3500 when passing or during other rapid acceleration. Peak hp @ 3500 doesn't mean it stops producing power at 3500, it should still produce good power for another 1000 rpm (4500). It just won't produce MORE power over 3500 -- power will start to drop off, and probably  fall off completely around 4500-5000 rpm (it will just stop pulling).

The 264 is probably best for a street car -- 80% of torque off idle will produce good gas mileage as the engine isn't working very hard just to get the car moving. HP peaks a bit high at 4300 rpm, but the TORQUE PEAK and how much torque is available at low speeds is the most important factor for a street car. This cam has a broader rpm range than the 272, according to what Clifford says.

Compare these cams with Comp Cams. You will find similar performance claims for similar duration and lift. The Xtreme Comp Cams are a bit aggressive IMHO for a street engine with stock springs. Lift needs to be under 0.500" for stock springs. If you go with one of the Clifford cams find out about the springs they send first. I'd use a 264 or 272 with stock springs for a street car. If you intend to continually run it over 3500 rpm you will need stronger springs. I suggest the Mopar Performance springs if you go for stronger ones. They will be sufficient for the 264 or 272 and still not so strong as to need additives in the oil or racing oil. They are just a bit stronger than stock (they are stock factory springs for Magnum V-8s). If you use heavy springs like Comp sells (no way I'd use the Comps in anything but a full race engine!) then you will have to run a high pressure additive (ZDDP additive, or break-in additive) all the time, or use off-road/racing oil. Diesel oil has a little more than regular gasoline engine oil, but even that has been reduced in recent years and isn't recommended to be run without additional additive with heavy springs (such as the Comp springs). You need a break-in additive when initially breaking in a cam no matter what, and I run it in the next oil change just to be safe. After that you're safe with normal oil for normal driving and stock (or near stock) valve springs.
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 11:18am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

The two numbers appear to be the same thing. You'll have to call Clifford and see if there is a difference. You also need to figure out what you want to do with the car. One of the descriptions states "peak hp at 5300 rpm". If this is a cruiser, forget that cam!

The Clifford 272 is much better for a street car -- 60% of peak torque off idle, max hp at 3500 rpm. Most cruising is in the 2000-2500 rpm range with a six (should be anyway, higher rpm just burns more fuel). You should only hit 3000-3500 when passing or during other rapid acceleration. Peak hp @ 3500 doesn't mean it stops producing power at 3500, it should still produce good power for another 1000 rpm (4500). It just won't produce MORE power over 3500 -- power will start to drop off, and probably  fall off completely around 4500-5000 rpm (it will just stop pulling).

The 264 is probably best for a street car -- 80% of torque off idle will produce good gas mileage as the engine isn't working very hard just to get the car moving. HP peaks a bit high at 4300 rpm, but the TORQUE PEAK and how much torque is available at low speeds is the most important factor for a street car. This cam has a broader rpm range than the 272, according to what Clifford says.

Compare these cams with Comp Cams. You will find similar performance claims for similar duration and lift. The Xtreme Comp Cams are a bit aggressive IMHO for a street engine with stock springs. Lift needs to be under 0.500" for stock springs. If you go with one of the Clifford cams find out about the springs they send first. I'd use a 264 or 272 with stock springs for a street car. If you intend to continually run it over 3500 rpm you will need stronger springs. I suggest the Mopar Performance springs if you go for stronger ones. They will be sufficient for the 264 or 272 and still not so strong as to need additives in the oil or racing oil. They are just a bit stronger than stock (they are stock factory springs for Magnum V-8s). If you use heavy springs like Comp sells (no way I'd use the Comps in anything but a full race engine!) then you will have to run a high pressure additive (ZDDP additive, or break-in additive) all the time, or use off-road/racing oil. Diesel oil has a little more than regular gasoline engine oil, but even that has been reduced in recent years and isn't recommended to be run without additional additive with heavy springs (such as the Comp springs). You need a break-in additive when initially breaking in a cam no matter what, and I run it in the next oil change just to be safe. After that you're safe with normal oil for normal driving and stock (or near stock) valve springs.

One of those numbers looked like just the cam and the other was a "kit", so with lifters maybe?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/21/2012 at 12:01pm
Price is the same for both though. I think they may have changed numbers and just not updated the site, that or they forgot to update the prices. 
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacer Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/26/2012 at 6:42am
witch one? and what is the diffrence?

1.
97-2041-K. 272 Hyd Cam & Kit - Low/Mid Range
Jeep 258/242 up to 2002 6=8 272 Hydraulic Cam & Kit includes, 272 cam, Hyd. Lifters, high lift spring, Chrome Molly Retainers, HD Valve Locks, & Heat Treated Pushrods. Run with Auto or Std Transmissions for a great daily driver. 1,800 stall converter is recommended. No bigger stall. High Torque design. Get a headrest, you are going to need one. Throttle response & acceleration is maximized as this cam makes 60% of the peak torque, off idle, peak torque is 3,400 rpm's, peak horse power @ 3,500 rpm's. Valve lift w/ 1.6 Rocker Ratio = .478 int/exh. Duration @ .050 = 214 All parts are made in the U.S.A.

2.
97-2041-K272 Hyd Cam & Kit
6=8 272 Hydraulic Camshaft. This cam is designed for a more aggressive mid range. Valve lift is .478 Int/Exh. 40$ of the total torque, off idle & peak torque at 3,500 rpm's. Peak horse power at 4,500 rpm's. Your cam kit includes; 272 hyd. camshaft, hyd. lifters, high lift springs, chrome molly retainers, HD valve lock and heat treated pushrods.
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