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What 10w-30 do you use?

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Gelalthedamned View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 4:07am
I had a new oil change of royal purple when I blew up my 258...so I’m a bit skittish of that now.
I have some rotella t5 on the shelf..it says it’s for diesel motors...but uhmn does that really matter?

What do you use? Got valid reasons for that?
Calamity - 73 Gremlin X zombie rod (daily driver)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 7:32am
Oil is oil. As long as it has an API rating on it it meets standards for that weight. The only difference between brands is the additive packages. Some have additives that make it a bit better than the API standard, but overall performance may or may not be better. All manufacturers state that oil meeting the minimum API standard is acceptable.
http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/oil-categories#tab_gasoline

I know some people are brand loyal for whatever reason, but it really makes no difference. You can mix brands and weights as well with no ill effects. Mixing weights isn't the best thing to do, as you change the overall weight rating to "unknown". I'v only done that when I needed to add oil and only had a thinner/heavier oil on hand, like adding a quart of 10W40 to a car running 10W30, or when I wanted a thicker oil but not real thick... like using three quarts of 10W30 and one quart of 50W in an engine that uses a bit of oil. Oil was a bit thicker than 10W40, but it's really a guess as to how much (if any) better it might have been. Both weights met API standards, so it lubricated well... and it seemed to burn less oil (in this case a Pontiac 6000 2.5L that I got rid of... but told the buyer it would need a rebuild soon).  I didn't really want to run something like STP in it, though that would probably have worked as well as the 50W.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 3:08pm
Here is the link to the standards:
https://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php
This stated, all the new oils, SN or CK-4 have reduced Zinc Phosphorus (ZDDP)as they have found that it clogs catalytic converters.
Our old flat tappet cam engines needed this to prevent high pressure wear in this area. Approximately 1000 to 1200 ppm.
Now some of these oils have introduced a molybdenum base into the oil to replace the Zinc wear additive, some have not as modern overhead cam engines do not have the same cam loads.
If your running a conventional unmodified engine you should be fine.
If you are running a performance engine you likely need to do something.
Race oil is high in ZDDP but has no detergents - it's made for one race or a few trips down the track, not the cruise on the highway and around town for three or more months in a crankcase.
There are ZDDP additives for conventional motor oil, but like Frank stated you don't know how they will mix with your oil additives.
My solution - mixing a race oil and conventional or synthetic oil of the same manufacturer of the same weight. Most race oils have 1600+ ppm ZDDP and new conventional oil 600 to 800 ppm ZDDP. So a 50-50 mix will get you there. Most all manufacturers keep to the same oil stock base and additive packages.   



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote First_Gear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 6:56pm
I've been driving my 63 chevy nova for 10 years daily.  I swear by Brad-Penn oil for classic cars and I'm not the only one. I get it on amazon by the case. Its a partial synthetic but with all the zddp and other additives the old cars like. Never had a problem with it. I change my oil + filter every 3500 miles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 7:06pm
You might want to check out the hundred other threads on oil......... instead of a new one. 
Isn't it rather, well, silly to blame the oil because the engine went when that oil was in it?
If there was an issue could it not have been the oil a couple of changes ago or more that caused it - OR it was simply ready to go for other reasons?
You don't say "what blew" - could be totally unrelated to any oil.

This topic has been VERY recently hashed over at length - and several other times as well.
Just use a good oil and a good filter and be done with it. 

(besides - you are in a very real sense asking what religion is the best)  Wink

I use synthetic Mobil One in my 4.0 in my Eagle and use just a good quality oil, not totally brand loyal, in the other cars. Never lost an engine in any car I've owned or ever worked on in over 40 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

(you are in a very real sense asking what religion is the best)  Wink


the correct answer is MINE, of course. :-)


1961 roadster american
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T5z, 3.42:1 mustang axle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 232jav3sp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 10:58pm
I grab the Traveler oil from Tractor Supply. It's cheap and has the latest API rating. I pour a bottle of Lucas ZDDP in with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2018 at 5:54am
I got the opportunity to talk to an actual oil engineer not long after the bulk of ZDDP was removed. The new formulation actually took into account that a vast number of flat tappet engines are still out there, and oil companies didn't want to start destroying motors or confuse consumers with even more products. So the formulation is fine for STOCK motors with up to around 300# per inch springs. Get over that, like the 400#+ springs used with an aggressive cam, and it's a different story! That wasn't well publicized when the change first started appearing on the market, and resulted in some performance cars with wiped cams. So keep the springs mild and you should have no issues, but for those big cams and high rpm (over 5000 consistently) motors you need an additive or racing oil. The additive doesn't hurt unless you have a catalytic converter and the engine is using a bit of oil... more than a quart in 5K miles (what most new cars recommend for changes). The auto industry pushed removing ZDDP because the US Government requires them to warrant cats for 100K miles. Might start burning a bit of oil before then and ruin the cat...
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2018 at 6:54am
Exactly Frank. Now that Engineer is talking spring load transferred to the cam.
On an overhead cam we are talking 1:1.
Our old rocker cams have a valve train that multiplies forces from rocker ratio. So my 85# stock springs with 6:1 rockers are transferring 510# to the cam.
How many iterations of oil engineering have happened in the last 10 years? - 4.
So your Pens, Shell, Mobil ... have all changed 4x in 10 years and 10 years ago is when hi performance engine people started to notice problems. I wonder why they developed roller lifters in that time?
So what is everyone's spring load to the cam based on Franks numbers posted above - simple math.
Should you think about doing anything - your car, your call. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2018 at 9:22am
Here we go again - geesh.
Adding stuff to your oil can be a BAD idea. The actual protection is added DURING the oil processing - and adding it later can actually REDUCE the protection the oil gives. That's been PROVEN.
It's NOT NOT NOT the zinc. Zinc doesn't add protection, the phosphorus n ZDDP is what does it.
You do not need additives if you use a decent oil.
The needing to add "Zinc" is one of those urban legends that just to this day seems to keep growing and has a life of its own.
If extra stuff was needed then thousands of engine rebuilds done by shops and people like me would e failing day after day. 
It's not needed. Choose a decent oil and use it and skip the bloody additives. 
I have a 280H in my 360, a Comp X-treme in my 4.0 and in my 390 and I use straight oil with no additives - and the same for many other people I know.

Why did they move to roller lifters?
Simple- if anyone thinks about it - because the Japanese did - and because it was necessary to squeeze more miles out of engines and still meet emissions.
Think about it - competition to extend warranties, the requirements to meed MPG rules, reliability competition when the foreign companies came in and said "we warrant our engines for 100,000 miles" and a few more reasons I could think of. Technology, warranties, competition and so on. It was not because of the reduction of "zinc" in the oil.
Roller lifters have been around for a very very long time - not just since the EPA stepped in. 
Foreign car makers were doing such things before we were because fuel cost a week's wages over there, small cars and engines winding up to 10,000 RPM to get the SAME HP as American made engines - think a bit. Honda was kicking our HP butts with engines half the size winding up crazy RPM and it all requires less friction and more efficient engines. That made for light cars that got good MPG and lasted a long time. We finally caught up.......... but not because of oil changes.
No one wants to believe engineers, they believe AMSOIL and others who SELL these crazy additive products and make a mint on them. They believe the fellow who builds a car in his garage and loses a cam and blames the oil and then puts in a new cam, adds ZDDP and doesn't lose a cam. Anyone stop o think the guy lost a cam the first time because of HIS mistakes?? No,, blame the oil.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c6-tech-performance/3656635-engineering-test-data-on-high-mileage-motor-oils.html

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

Not that anyone will believe me as I'm the idiot that just comes in here to rant. Well there's a reason - no one will believe science, they prefer to believe cousin Bubba or stuff they hear about a cam failure.
Been at this for about 45 years and have never lost a cam or lifters - but then I pay attention to important details.

Interesting to some may be the fact that by ADDING crap to their oil they may be REDUCING protection.
Remember, these things are often best added when the oil is made or blended - to add them later can cause you MORE wear, not less. And there's no good way to prove it unless you do the engineering testing, losing an engine or not losing an engine is proof of nothing.

I could post a couple of other great links but why waste my time - someone will just flame me for dissing their beloved additives anyway. 

Bottom line - use a good quality, name brand oil and filter, change as recommended and take care of your engine and it will do what mine usually do - go over 100,000 miles without major trouble. 
It truly is that simple.
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