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Weber measurements needed, please... |
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Pdok
AMC Nut
Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 341 |
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Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 12:03am |
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I haven't heard what your total setup will be, and if you're not sure up front you can waste a lot of money for upgrades that don't go together well. If you're going to spend good money on anything, spend it on a good carburetor. The rest of it can be procured easily from a junkyard (except the cam, naturally.) With a 258, you aren't going to get a high-revving power monster (easily or cheaply). Ever. You can, however, get a great motor with solid torque and HP numbers, without putting another $1000 into the motor. Decide what you want, then make sure each piece performs properly with the performance goal in mind and matches what the other components do. Intake, Exhaust, Cam, final drive gearing, desired cruise RPM vs Cam pwr band should all be part of the decision. ANY of the 2 bbl carbs mentioned above will do just fine with almost any performance upgrades you choose. If you go the 4 bbl carb route you'll probably need to make a fairly expensive intake manifold change. A 2bbl carb leaves you options to use the later 4.2 jeep manifolds/exhaust, which you can pick up el cheapo used. I got one for $30 on eBay, for instance, in perfect condition. If you go with the 2100, you need to get the 1.08 venturi model for best results with the 258. Just don't buy into all the cam hype and make the mistake of too much lift. You need to pay attention to where the torque/HP peaks are. Honestly, ANY of the mild cams under .460 lift are a great choice to go with a mild upgrade in carb/intake/exhaust. Pushing past that starts to get into spring pressures that contribute to excessive wear. (ESPECIALLY if you set them to spec for Comp Cams...) You don't need to buy new, honestly, unless you're hard up finding a good pull. The other option is the Motocraft ignition from the early 80s F150 I6's. They're a fantastic and durable dist. The only real limitation is the crappy limitation on total mechanical advance, which takes a few minutes with a dremel tool to change. Google the "Jeep TFI Ignition Upgrade" and you'll have some reading to do. Anyway, that will get you a great substitute for an expensive new HEI unit. Pull all the plug wires and coil from the Ford, by the way, and you'll probably have a pretty good coil. They're solid performers. You shouldn't have to buy "new" wires anyway, just walk around the 80's Fords until you find a good-looking I-6 and grab the whole mess. Nothing wrong with HEI, I'm running it, but you'll want to use a GM branded ignition module in it, and not the crummy chinese version. Common failure item. Another thing you can get from a junkyard Chevy I-6.
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76 Grem X 258/904 w/ Cheetah VBody/Jeep intake/MC2150/ Clifford Header
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7103 |
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Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 10:26am |
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If you have a Motorcraft electronic distributor now (1978 or later) I'd go with the TFI upgrade. Pdok already described that. If you have an older one you can get a Pertronix Ignitor II and install that or change to a later model AMC/Motorcraft distributor (and do the TFI upgrade) or a GM 250 six HEI unit. You can find the GM unit in late 70s/early 80s (through 84) trucks with 4.1L (250) six. You need an AMC gear (the V8 gear fits) and drop it in. There is one caveat -- if the dizzy body doesn't drop all the way against the AMC block DO NOT clamp it down. It will bind in the oil pump. Some have ground about 1/16" off the end of the shaft, but most just get a large hardware store washer and put that between the dizzy and block.
If you have the 75-77 Prestolite electronic ignition (easily identified by the double chamber vacuum advance) I advise you to replace it with any other system. It was trouble prone, though the problems were pretty much solved and it should be okay now if it's working right. I just don't like it!! Pdok and I are in agreement on the carbs too. If/when your head needs work grab a 96-99 4.0L head. They have slightly smaller but much smoother cast ports than the more popular 91-95 models. The smoothness makes up for the size easily. I spent four hours just cleaning up a 95 casting, looked at the 99 I got at a deal and didn't touch the ports -- didn't need it. Then you can run a stock 4.0L header and a 1980+ aluminum 2V intake and carb. Can't find headers for the older head that's not expensive. Clifford still makes a shorty header that fits in cars and Jeeps, but that's the only one. For the cost of the header you can get a 4.0L header, header, and valve cover (have to have the VC with the head!), and even have the head rebuilt. you might even have some change left, definitely will if you have a pick-n-pull type yard nearby. Build the motor for torque and use it! I had to convince a SCCA racer to do that instead of trying to rev the heck out of it. He started running in the upper half of the pack and even winning on occasion once he figured out how to drive it like a big six instead of a four or high revving V6. He couldn't win drag races down the straights, but could pull out of the corners much quicker than the others. Evened things out! |
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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PrerunnerScout
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Apr/05/2012 Location: Oceanside Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 11:31am |
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Thanks again. My other car is a Cummins so I'm used to a 3K redline and gobs of low end, this is why I like the 258. Great tip for the HEI, I like to know any parts I would need could be had at the local parts palace. I don't know these ignition systems very well so and all your info is invaluable to me- I have the original ignition setup from 1973- Is this the parts list I need to convert to HEI?- 1983 Chevy ____4.1L distributor, an AMC gear(can I re-use my existing?), plug wires from same said GM dist.? Installation: grind/space distributor shaft, replace gear, install distributor and wires, use pos. wire to coil for power to new HEI, time engine. Thanks for dumbing it down for me- Nate
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7103 |
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Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 11:47am |
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If you have a GM distributor now I'm pretty sure the gear will work. You will need cap and wires for an HEI. The positive wire from the coil has a resistance wire in it that reduces voltage shortly after starting. The GM HEI wants +12V all the time. Use any switched +12V source. The resistance wire is buried in the wiring harness, not real easy to cut out.
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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PrerunnerScout
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Apr/05/2012 Location: Oceanside Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 4:31pm |
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Any sources for the drive gear? I have no AMC 8's at pick and pull and Napa only lists whole distributor.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7103 |
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Posted: Apr/28/2012 at 7:05am |
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Any of the AMC vendors will have one. Try www.bulltear.com.
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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PrerunnerScout
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Apr/05/2012 Location: Oceanside Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: Apr/28/2012 at 9:31am |
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Thanks, I did find the Napa and Mopar part #'s after searching-Mopar-3208615, Napa-BK655-1284. After adding it all up it makes me wonder why some internet retailers are selling complete drop in units for so cheap? Must be junk?
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FuzzFace2
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 6350 |
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Posted: Apr/28/2012 at 11:40am |
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So far good info given. I think I saw you have a 1v carb & intake now? If so when doing a carb change you should also swap the intake for a v2 one. I am sure you would need to go to one with any carb be it a Weber or any Holley because the adapters made only fit the v2 intakes.
When my son gets up I will try and get measurements of his Weber for you.
Dave ----
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75 GremlinX v8
76 GremlinX i6 (sons) 70 Javelin SST 390/4sp (360/5sp now) 70 Javelin 1/4 Drag car 360/auto |
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PrerunnerScout
AMC Apprentice
Joined: Apr/05/2012 Location: Oceanside Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: Apr/29/2012 at 8:36am |
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Well, I've given up on trying to contact the e-bay seller that makes the 2100 conversions, too bad, sounds like a good and practical setup. I'm going with the Weber kit from redline and will probably just take it to the local carb guy (very good rep) for final tuning. Still deciding on which Weber setup- I've heard conflicting reports on them. Some say don't go for the smaller w/a strong stock engine? I'm leaning small though as I'm only planning on the more modern ignition and slight cam. Sound good? Thank You guys again for all the help. You've surely saved me money and have helped a lot-Nate
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73' 2wd Scout halfcab
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7103 |
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Posted: Apr/29/2012 at 1:12pm |
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I'd use the 32/36 then. The bigger ones are for more all-out performance. There's a reason the 32/36 is so popular! You have to remember one thing about this board -- most of the members are a lot more performance oriented than just driver/restorers. There are plenty exceptions, but the majority are performance geeks who will always advise for the more power producing parts. Just my observation over the last 10+ years of being here...
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Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com |
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