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Weber measurements needed, please...

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    Posted: Apr/25/2012 at 7:40pm
I could really use a measurement from someone with the Weber conversion kit.  I want to replace my holley w/ a 38/38 but am limited height wise and would appreciate a full height measurement from manifold to aircleaner top.  I have a little over 7" to the hood and with that adapter I know it would be close!  Thank You-   *SIDE QUESTION*-Are these progressive or synchronized?  Any info or tips on the swap greatly appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2012 at 9:36pm
I will see if my son (20 year old so hardly home) still has the one he pulled off his Jeep. He rebuilt it twice and it still ran like crap so he rebuilt a Holley 2300 v2 500 cfm I had on the shelf. He loves the Holley and has not looked back in over a year.
 
IIRC I want to say it is progressive linkage but will check on that too.
Dave ----
75 GremlinX v8

76 GremlinX i6 (sons)

70 Javelin SST 390/4sp (360/5sp now)

70 Javelin 1/4 Drag car 360/auto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pdok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2012 at 10:44pm
The 38 is a synchronized linkage.  The 32/36 is progressive.  If you're going for economy, stay with the 32/36 or another carb like the 2100.  Realize that the 38 will require engine performance mods in order to provide satisfactory service.  You will need a cam, intake, and exhaust headers, in order to make the upgrade pay off.  Also, the jet kit will probably be needed to optimize tuning if you're running a cam.

I'm sorry, I can't easily get the measurement you want at the moment, but I have the 38 DG on my Gremlin.

Comparing to my BBD, the weber seems shorter until you add in the adapter, then it's pretty similar in height.

  The air cleaner that is included with the conversion kit (the rectangular K&N filter) is a bit higher than the stock cleaner mounted on the Weber with the adapter top (see below), and it still fit under my hood by an inch or more.  There is an adapter plate under mine, too, since I have the Clifford intake.  That adds a 1/2 inch, and you'll probably have to do that if you're going to a stock manifold too.  THe kit comes with a pair of plates that  you use together, one for the manifold, and one with studs to the carb.  That adds about 3/4 inch.

I eventually switched to the stock air cleaner to get back some of the stock vacuum purge signal hookups to the charcoal canister.

In order to the use the stock air cleaner you'll need to have an adapter for the top of the carb.  Look on this page for one that matches the size of your stock air cleaner hole:

If you go this route, you'll need a silicone tube piece from Amazon with matching size ends.  I used this and cut it down to fit:


You will also need to retap the center hole to 1/4-20 for the normal threaded rod of the cleaner nut.

If you experiment, maybe you could run a hose or tube into the top of the carb through the silicone adapter and that top piece, and maybe adapt an air filter off to the side, like a modern air induction system.  That might reduce the overall height for you.  

My experience is that the Weber runs great, but you will need to tune the jets to match your setup.  The stock jets are a guess, and the Weber really needs some time to dial in.  Also, you will absolutely have to run a pressure regulator at 2.5 - 3 psi.  Your stock pump will eventually cause problems with the carb since it's likely to be twice that pressure.  My stock pump put out around 6 psi.  It will push fuel and run like crap, so I hear.

If you're doing a Jeep, the linkage included in the kit will probably work fine, not so much with the Gremlin...

All things considered, starting from scratch, I'd go with something else.  I've got mine set up really nicely right now, and I'm happy, but I'd go a different route if I did it over.  Nothing really on Weber, but they're not really a mainstream carb, and people generally don't understand them.  The 2100 or the Holley apparently tend to tolerate tuning error or sloppiness with jets without the same quirky behavior.

For instance, if you look for the seller  "ehrmannmp" on eBay, he sells a 2100 kit that gets rave reviews on the Jeep forums.  It might be a better choice for you, and he apparently will do some custom tuning setup if you call him with your configuration.

Good luck.




76 Grem X 258/904 w/ Cheetah VBody/Jeep intake/MC2150/ Clifford Header
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrerunnerScout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/25/2012 at 11:18pm
Thanks for the info and input, I've only heard good stuff about the weber swap so it's good to hear another perspective.  My holley is rebuilt and working pretty well but was thinking another carb would wake up the 258 some.  It's a good tight motor at this point so i was thinking the 38 would work well.  I'll check out the other options you've suggested but if it would be a minimal upgrade maybe the old Holley is worth keeping?  I don't have any hoses to carb at this point other than dist. vacuum and pcv.  Thanks, and any more info is appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OzJavelin2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 3:30am
You need some "real "Webers:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrerunnerScout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 6:30am
That's what I think of when I hear Webers- the Datsuns w/triples and CA style vw bugs...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pdok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 9:43am
I'd consider a rebuild of the Holley, plus a good cam upgrade.  I'm assuming you've got the Holley 390, which has great potential, equal to the Weber 38 by all accounts.  The 38 isn't going to flow more than the Holley, though Clifford swears it out performs the Holley.  The Clifford numbers are all at RPMs that my 258 would never survive, and at the normal driving RPM there can't be that much difference.  Not $500 difference, that's for dang sure.

Take that money, buy a good torque cam that peaks HP below 5K, and you'll have something.  The Comp Xtreme series is a modern profile and pretty good, stay away from their high lift version, though, unless you want a completely new top end every 15,000 miles.   I used the 231-4, and it's great.  I'd recommend you keep the max lift .480 or less and use the Mopar Performance springs if you go up that high (softer than the Comp kit springs to reduce wear).

 A header is essential.  Don't know what year you have, but you could pick up a later Jeep aluminum intake and a header and get a pretty good approximation of the Clifford setup I've got without the expense.  I do like the Clifford header, but it has to be coated to survive.  I used Cilgen Satin Black and it's still looking good.

Cheers.


76 Grem X 258/904 w/ Cheetah VBody/Jeep intake/MC2150/ Clifford Header
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrerunnerScout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 12:13pm
Thanks, all your advice and tips will be put to good useBig smile.  I have a 1bbl holley 1940 not a 390, not sure if that's a 1bbl?  I'd just like to get a little more out of her with minor mods, after reading all the suggestions I'm thinking that the addition of an RV style cam and maybe a 2bbl of undecided model would get her to pull some at kickdown...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 12:28pm
No one could force me to use the Comp Cams recommended springs in anything but an all out drag engine! Way too stiff for anything but high rpm performance. The MP springs are stock Magnum V8 springs and are just a bit stiffer than the 4.0L stock springs -- plenty good for up to 5000 rpm. I'm using a MP cam (the second one -- kicks in at 1100 rpm) and love it. It's a 4.0L cam, but will work in the 258 -- but you'd have to use an electric fuel pump. The Comp Xtreme cams are good, but as Pdok said, 0.480 or under lift so you can use stock type springs. If you like a profile Comp has but don't want the lift they will custom grind you one with lower lift. The only difference will be lower high rpm power, which you won't be using in a street vehicle anyway. 4000 rpm and under you won't notice a difference (probably 5000 and under!).

You definitely need a 2V carb. As mentioned, the 38/38 is a bit of overkill. The popular 32/36 would give you a noticeable increase in power without killing your economy at low/cruising speeds. That or a small Motorcraft 2100 or Holley 2300. The 1V carb is about 150 cfm, the BBD 2V about 195. The small Motorcraft and Holley are around 350 cfm.

The mentioned Holley 390 is a four barrel. That and an Offenhauser dual plane intake would be a great combination for power and economy. I'd stay away from the Clifford intakes. They are great for mid to high rpm performance, not so good for low rpm. The Offy DP is hands down the best for that, but can only be used with a 4V carb. It could be used with a custom adapter with a progressive 2V like the 32/36 with good results though. Would have to use a throttle cable, and if you have an auto transmission the linkage would likely have to be replaced with a cable (Lokar makes a cable kit for AMC/Mopar auto trannys) and may take some finagling to work then. Stick shift is no problem!
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrerunnerScout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 9:44pm
Well, I tried to contact the e-bay seller w/the motocraft 2150 and an HEI distributor for starters, does this sound like a good reliable setup?  Any recommended hei's?  I found one on crt website that looks pretty good for $150 w/wires.   http://www.crtperance.com//jeep_hei_s. - http://www.crtperformance.com/html/jeep_hei_s.html

Edited by PrerunnerScout - Apr/26/2012 at 9:45pm
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