TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC 6 Cylinder Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Water pump rotation
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

Water pump rotation

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
GremlinP38 View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jun/30/2012
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GremlinP38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Water pump rotation
    Posted: Jun/16/2019 at 2:48pm
i have a friend that has had an overheating problem on his ‘73 6 cylinder Gremlin and he finally figured out today that the impeller was a reverse rotation design. He knows what to look for now but we were wondering what used a backwards rotation setup. I did a quick search of the forums but didn’t see anything.
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 16614
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/16/2019 at 2:55pm
v belts rotate one way. And most surpentine belts rotate the other way. Sounds like you first got the wrong pump.
Back to Top
GremlinP38 View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jun/30/2012
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GremlinP38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/16/2019 at 3:41pm
Definitely wrong pump. Just wondering what the normal application should have been. Jeep? Later Eagle? Doesn’t look like the one on my 99 Cherokee. Just curious.
Back to Top
pacerman View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum


Joined: Jul/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/16/2019 at 3:43pm
Normal application would have been an air conditioned Eagle with a serpentine belt system.  The water pump rotation is reverse to the V-belt style.  Joe
Happiness is making something out of nothing.
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 16614
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/16/2019 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by pacerman pacerman wrote:

Normal application would have been an air conditioned Eagle with a serpentine belt system.  The water pump rotation is reverse to the V-belt style.  Joe
and Ive had several spirits with the 258 and surpentine belts. 1982-83...
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2019 at 11:56pm
Any serpentine belt AMC 258 six with a fan, around 82-88. The 4.0L uses a serpentine belt and the same reverse rotation water pump. the XJ Cherokee uses the same pump body and impeller, but a shorter shaft and a different bolt pattern on the hub so you can't bolt a fan to it. Wranglers and Grand Cherokee 4.0Ls use a different hub and engine driven fan. The bearings in the pump with and without engine driven fans are different also.
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2019 at 10:20am
Beware that we can say SOME in those years used the serpentine belt, but not all. Not sure what the criteria was from the factory but every Eagle I've ever owned was v-belt while my 4.0 equipped vehicles were all serpentine and yet SOME Eagles did have serpentine. 
AC didn't seem to be the difference as the non-AC Eagles appear to be quite rare. I know they exist but of all of the Eagles I have seen, worked on or owned, every one of them had AC.
So we can't say "AC equipped" cars - some yes, not all. 
Years? I know of those of similar or same years as those I've owned which were serpentine and not v-belt like mine. 
Would love to know the criteria - why did some get serpentine and yet in the same year - even with AC, most got v-belt. 
I don't have 1980 and later parts books to go by and see if I can find a pattern. 

Farna is also right - although I know it wasn't part of the question - some jeeps had the fan offset, not in the center on the pump like, for example, the ZJ. The ZJ 4.0 is a perfect match to the 258 fan and water pump setup except for the drive - serpentine vs v-belt. 
For Jeep we know it was a design and engine bay issue as far as the fan on the pump or not, that sort of thing - but why did some Eagles have serpentine and others not?

To be sure when I buy a water pump I always take my original with me and have them open the box, lay them together and compare for an exact match. Glad I did with the 4.0 years ago because at first they brought out the wrong pump even though I specified 94 ZJ 4.0

Take an example, compare impeller, shaft and hub, etc.
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 19689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/24/2019 at 6:09am
I've seen Eagles the same years and equipment, early to mid 80s models, some with V-belts others with serpentine. I've been told that the Canadian built models starting about 81 or 82 all had serpentine and the Kenosha built kept V-belts up to a point, but I can't substantiate that, and don't know when Kenosha switched to serpentine. I'm pretty sure the last couple years (87-88) all Eagles had serpentine belts, but not 100% on that. I've seen an 88 model with serpentine belt, at least I was told it was an 88... didn't check.
Frank Swygert
Back to Top
73Gremlin401 View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Mar/02/2013
Location: Stmbt Sprgs CO
Status: Offline
Points: 955
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73Gremlin401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/24/2019 at 7:55am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

I've seen Eagles the same years and equipment, early to mid 80s models, some with V-belts others with serpentine. I've been told that the Canadian built models starting about 81 or 82 all had serpentine and the Kenosha built kept V-belts up to a point, but I can't substantiate that, and don't know when Kenosha switched to serpentine. I'm pretty sure the last couple years (87-88) all Eagles had serpentine belts, but not 100% on that. I've seen an 88 model with serpentine belt, at least I was told it was an 88... didn't check.


The Eagle/Concord/Spirit serpentine setup started with California market cars - apparently to prevent owners from removing/disconnecting the air-pump on the 81-83 cars.  It did show up randomly on 49 state cars during that period of time, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind it, possibly more a supply-side issue at the factory, but the actual reason is probably lost forever. 
73 Gremlin 401/5-spd.
77 Matador Wagon 360/727.
81 Jeep J10 LWB 360/4-spd
83 Concord DL 4-dr 258/auto

Back to Top
pacerman View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum


Joined: Jul/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pacerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/24/2019 at 8:30am
Originally posted by 73Gremlin401 73Gremlin401 wrote:

Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

I've seen Eagles the same years and equipment, early to mid 80s models, some with V-belts others with serpentine. I've been told that the Canadian built models starting about 81 or 82 all had serpentine and the Kenosha built kept V-belts up to a point, but I can't substantiate that, and don't know when Kenosha switched to serpentine. I'm pretty sure the last couple years (87-88) all Eagles had serpentine belts, but not 100% on that. I've seen an 88 model with serpentine belt, at least I was told it was an 88... didn't check.


The Eagle/Concord/Spirit serpentine setup started with California market cars - apparently to prevent owners from removing/disconnecting the air-pump on the 81-83 cars.  It did show up randomly on 49 state cars during that period of time, but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind it, possibly more a supply-side issue at the factory, but the actual reason is probably lost forever. 

Your reasoning is sound, but the reference I used for my first answer (which I cannot recall now) mentioned specifically that early Eagles with air conditioning used serpentine belts.  I like your answer better though.  Joe
Happiness is making something out of nothing.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or