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Virgin r12 freon value?

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addic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote addic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 3:46pm
I bought four cans for $100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 4:24pm
R-12 systems work best with R-12 in them, especially with low air flow through the Condenser.  R-134a converted AMC Systems just don't have the performance.....two years ago I did a 70 AMX Compressor Replacement and Expansion Valve change, which required the system to be completely emptied with my Snap On Recycler....changed parts, pulled and held 30 inches vacuum for 2 days and re-charged with R-12.  On a 80+ F Degree day, car static (no condenser airflow), I got the outlet air temp down to 36 deg F.  You will never see that with R-134a conversion or a new R-134a system.  I am very careful to have check valves on all the hoses and leak check every connections, not to lose any Freon to the atmosphere.
Ross K. Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 5:21pm
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wikiOzone_depletion

CFCs and related compounds in the atmosphere

CFCs were invented by Thomas Midgley, Jr. in the 1920s. They were used in air conditioning and cooling units, as aerosol spray propellants prior to the 1970s, and in the cleaning processes of delicate electronic equipment. They also occur as by-products of some chemical processes. No significant natural sources have ever been identified for these compounds—their presence in the atmosphere is due almost entirely to human manufacture. As mentioned above, when such ozone-depleting chemicals reach the stratosphere, they are dissociated by ultraviolet light to release chlorine atoms. The chlorine atoms act as a catalyst, and each can break down tens of thousands of ozone molecules before being removed from the stratosphere. Given the longevity of CFC molecules, recovery times are measured in decades. It is calculated that a CFC molecule takes an average of about five to seven years to go from the ground level up to the upper atmosphere, and it can stay there for about a century, destroying up to one hundred thousand ozone molecules during that time.[17][verification needed].




Edited by vinny - Jul/24/2017 at 5:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6768rogues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by 401MATCOUPE 401MATCOUPE wrote:

R-12 systems work best with R-12 in them, especially with low air flow through the Condenser.  R-134a converted AMC Systems just don't have the performance.....two years ago I did a 70 AMX Compressor Replacement and Expansion Valve change, which required the system to be completely emptied with my Snap On Recycler....changed parts, pulled and held 30 inches vacuum for 2 days and re-charged with R-12.  On a 80+ F Degree day, car static (no condenser airflow), I got the outlet air temp down to 36 deg F.  You will never see that with R-134a conversion or a new R-134a system.  I am very careful to have check valves on all the hoses and leak check every connections, not to lose any Freon to the atmosphere.

Not necessarily so. I put a $500 aftermarket R-134A system on my 68 Rogue and it blows 34 degree air when it is 90 degrees outside, sitting still at idle in a parking lot. If it is aimed at the back window, the window will get so cold that condensation will form on the outside of it. You can see frost in the air coming off the evaporator. I have a similar system in my 67 Rogue, but the evaporator thermostat kicks off the compressor at about 39 degrees. For some reason I got an evaporator thermostat in one that is 34 degrees.
If you have a big condenser that can overpower the evaporator, the limiting factor will be the freeze protecting thermostat in the evaporator. If it lets the system get cold, you will need a winter coat. I always measure and sometimes do some cutting to get the biggest condenser possible wedged in there, with a good fan and shroud, and sealing the condenser to the radiator.
I have converted systems and had good results. But by converting, I mean putting in a new large parallel flow condenser, flushing the system, changing the valve or orfice tube, and replacing the dryer or accumulator. Simply replacing the refrigerant does produce mediocre results.


Edited by 6768rogues - Jul/24/2017 at 7:06pm
Why Ramblers? Chicks dig 'em. Whatever it is, I can take it apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 7:35pm
6768rogues....we are on the same page, as I see it.  You have done the right thing.  Please correct me if I am wrong here, but you have upgraded all the 1960's technology and are using parts and MADE for a R-134a system, which is the only way to go if you are putting a/c system in a custom install today. The problem has always been folks just want to "make it work" and I love to hear guys that do the research and make it better!    On my AMC work, 99% of the cars I do for other always want them dead stock, so that limits what can be done and you lose too much by a simple change to R-134a, right off the bat.  The original condensers have really poor sealing for sure.

Are you also using a electric fan???  That would be a huge help to on a high level conversion.
Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70X,GoPac,390,AT,BBB
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6768rogues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by 401MATCOUPE 401MATCOUPE wrote:

6768rogues....we are on the same page, as I see it.  You have done the right thing.  Please correct me if I am wrong here, but you have upgraded all the 1960's technology and are using parts and MADE for a R-134a system, which is the only way to go if you are putting a/c system in a custom install today. The problem has always been folks just want to "make it work" and I love to hear guys that do the research and make it better!    On my AMC work, 99% of the cars I do for other always want them dead stock, so that limits what can be done and you lose too much by a simple change to R-134a, right off the bat.  The original condensers have really poor sealing for sure.

Are you also using a electric fan???  That would be a huge help to on a high level conversion.

I think we are in agreement. I do not have an electric fan, rather, I have a 7 blade factory fan with a home made shroud. The real limitation that I have seen converting old cars is trying to use an original serpentine condenser. I don't understand why, but parallel flow condensers work better with R-134A and they are not expensive. They are also not original for those wanting originality. Evaporators, on the other hand, are simply fan coils and seem to work with either refrigerant.
Sucking out R-12 and dumping in R-134A is not a recipe for success.
Why Ramblers? Chicks dig 'em. Whatever it is, I can take it apart.
Located near Rochester, NY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/24/2017 at 9:20pm
WOW, 2 guys that know what they are talking about on A/C. Clap  Replacing R-12 and dumping in R-134A is not a recipe for success is so true but try telling that to people that "just want it fixed cheap". Ermm  That's why I quit doing A/C work expect for a few friends and myself.

Condensers, hoses and compressors are the big issue for converting IMO. Those tiny 134a molecules sure find a way to escape on the old systems.

"It was long ago and it was far away, and it was so much better than it is today" Jim Steinman
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