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valve covers

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2016 at 9:21am
AMCenthusiast, yes you sound a bit harsh, but facts are, that one must understand proper cooling of the valve train. No matter how good your springs are, heat from friction and heat transfer from the valves can make them weak sooner than later.

Now for the performance guys pushing the limits on the track, we are talking short runs, so IMO heat may not play into the equation, as in dirt track or autocross. Even with street driven cars, that see above 4k RPM in rare occasions.

Now I did notice the same with my OEM valve covers, as for how oil is distributed by splash from the covers curved top. I had plans long ago to go with a girdle and had Offy tall ribbed covers set aside.

Once I realized the OEM covers fit well enough with quality springs, retainers, and studs, and I was not going all out in RPM use constantly... and keeping lift and valve stem height in check, I sold my Offy covers without any second thoughts.

Now which looks better on a built engine... obviously the taller ones. In some ways making a point about something that may not even be an issue, even if it is in design, can be taken as a wee bit of disregarded info to be noted with respect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mopar440cu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2016 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

(that appears to be a nitrous solenoid on '74Hornet's engine?)

Excuse me for posting this longer, rebellious type reply; if you want me to delete it and remove it from your thread, PM me & I will do it.

Taking a larger perspective on this thread and having a heart for any fellow AMC comrade, there is one aspect of valve cover selection for AM's '66-'91 V8 engines which I don't hear much about but is rather remarkable nonetheless: the stock AMV8's curved top valve cover is a functional working component of the oil system.

I learned this a long time ago by observing the sludge deposits inside several used (very) AM V8s -the sludge deposits clearly show a distinct spray pattern from the pushrods to the valve springs (those areas will appear to be washed clean)

Noticing this is one thing, but it dawned on me that AM's '66-'91 V8 was the only engine I knew of that had this feature... and that this element (the curved top stock valve cover which functions as a working oil deflector to lube and cool the valve springs) is another positive attribute of this engine's oil system design.

Positive attribute? Of the stock oil system? ...well, yeah.

...another positive attribute is that the AMV8 comes with 'high flow' sized oil pump gears, as compared to the shorter '6 cylinder sized' gears found as stock equipment in SBC Gen 1 engines.

Looking at a cutaway view shows what I'm saying a different way. Here's the link to my PRO-AMC website where I have collected cutaway views of many different V8 engines in order to show how AMC's V8 engine designs compare rather favorably to their appropriate competitors:

http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/photo2.html

It does appear that the stock Chevy Gen 1 valve covers would deflect oil spurts from the pushrods back down on the valves also ..but because of the cramped space, not necessarily because of a carefully engineered design.

We may clearly see, by noticing how close the SBC Gen 1 valve cover is to the rocker arms, why buying tall aftermarket valve covers became a big trend... because of Chevy's 'manufactured popularity' = way more cars manufactured per year (as in millions, literally) than AMC could ever make ...Ford too (I remember when this trend started, and I remember myself thinking 'they just want the look of a race valve cover made for a stud girdle but most Chevy people are just wearing them like young girls might wear falsies')

...and -that's what they tend to think about AMCers! > they might even think AMC's '68-'70 AMX is just a silly attempt to make a 'real' sports car... (most people have been brainwashed to think AMCs are a joke; truly)

(but AMC's AMX won SAE's 'Best Engineered Car of the Year' award two years in a row in '69 & '70 > not Camaro, not Mustang, not even Porsche, Mercedes or Ferrari! *and it's stuff like this that if we AMCers don't talk about it how will they ever know anything different?)

IMO? Yes; the valve covers shown here look great on the ...304 with 290 heads

(I'm assuming they are 'Typhoon 290' 10 to 1 high compression heads ...and there could be a benefit by running the smallest diameter pre-made headers with the better fitting flanges made for rectangle exhaust port outlet shape)

~but~ IMO (uh oh) the money would be better spent on putting in the higher rpm valve train parts that already fit under the stock better performing valve covers (because the curved top valve covers are worth keeping for their better oil defection design)

Like AM's very own hop up book says, by making those mods they show only in the first section (to get approx 1000 more rpm out of the stock full production engines) this will be enough to put many 'other make' challengers behind (move the redline from 5000 to 6000)

One can do it with 290 and 304 engines but not by wearing falsies.

I'd say, after you've added all the appropriate higher rpm valve seals (on the new machined stems, which must be done to work with any cam having more than .440" lift ...as stated in PAS) higher rate springs, lighter stronger keepers and retainers, roller rocker arms, chrome moly pushrods and slightly better anti-pump up lifters ~then~ when you start getting bored with blowing away big block Novas... ~then~ you might start dressing up the engine to look like it's built to spin 8000 rpm? (those tall covers for AMCs are to make room for stud girdles)

On AM V8s? For 99% of all 'hobby' oriented AMCers? There's already enough room under the stock better oiling valve covers. Spend your money smarter and make it beat the Chevys and Fords at your local dragstrip on Saturday night.

...nothing could be more fun or rewarding for all your hard work IMO!

...it would be less rewarding to spend your hard earned money of dress up items that make it look like a race engine but only to get beat by a Camaro or Mustang everytime (BUMMER)

Back in the days when I built my first 365 CID AM V8 'race engine' made to turn 7000 rpm (going by the book Performance American Style) I did it by putting mild pocket ported 'Typhoon' high compression heads on a re-balanced TRW forged piston nodular iron bottom end and used a 6800 rpm Sig Erson 'high flow II' cam and kit... (I ported the rectangle exhaust port outlets to have a more dog leg shape and used fully ported and lightened AMV8 high flow ex manifolds)

Spending $3000 on an engine way back in '83 was a lot of money and that's when I drew up the 'AMC Oil System Modifications' pages because I did not want to see my engine spin a rod bearing (to kill it; when an AM nodular iron rod spins a bearing at high rpm... it's basically all over -the engine is toast because the rod shatters into a thousand pieces and all the bits instantly flow through the oil system -not like a forged rod engine)

...back then, we thought AMC would never go out of business & I myself tore up so many nodular iron crank and rod AM V8s I can't remember ...but I remember throwing the junk/destroyed engines into the river (near a dam), just to watch them make a big splash in the water

But, wow, spending the money on getting the whole valvetrain set up for higher rpm was well worth it; that engine would wind up and spin like it had no apparent redline...

I even began to have problems with my tires on that car instead (?) yeah! Get this: everytime I could find a long wide open space where I could reasonably take the car up to top speed and 'let it all hang out' ...my tires would go flat ...because after 'burying the speedometer' centrifugal force would make the flat repair plugs come out!!!!!! (for a similar reason, this is why NHRA rules demand metal only air valves on the race car's wheel rims = so the stems don't come out from centrifugal force!)

Moral of the story?

-the stock valve covers already have enough room and can take a valve train that will enable way more rpm than most people will ever build the bottom end for

-the stock valve covers provide better oiling and cooling (as in oil cooling) for the valve springs but the hardcore AMCers don't ever mention it so most softcore AMCers have never heard of it

...but hey, I'm definitely not your enemy; I'm a fellow comrade AMCer, and who am I to tell anyone what to do; it's your life, your  choice, they look great & good luck (HA! > make your own good luck by trying harder than the other couch potatoes!)

...but I hope you don't spend lots of money putting on falsies and still get beat by another Camaro or Mustang ARGH!
All I can say is "WOW" Ouchwith no disrespect intended.lolLOLWink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Bubblefender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2016 at 6:37pm
Fwew!

Edited by 74Bubblefender - Oct/24/2016 at 6:43pm
We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74hornet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2016 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by mopar440cu mopar440cu wrote:

Originally posted by 74hornet 74hornet wrote:



</span>

I have to ask, what us the blue and red lines in the front of your carb? Is it anodized fuel lines? Its hard to see it clearly with this old phone. Lol


they are the fittings and lines for nitrous,i went with black look now when i changed the nitrous for a bigger system,the 175hp too small for the new motor Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74hornet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2016 at 7:15pm
[QUOTE=amcenthusiast](that appears to be a nitrous solenoid on '74Hornet's engine?)

in my case i had the edelbrock cast on the engine before but the new valve train with 1.7 rockers hit on the ends and hit with metal ones too.i tryed the sce thicker very costly gaskets and they delaminated and started an oil fire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2016 at 12:00am
hee hee gotcha goin'!

but hopefully I gotcha thinkin too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mopar440cu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2016 at 7:40am
Originally posted by 74hornet 74hornet wrote:

Originally posted by mopar440cu mopar440cu wrote:

Originally posted by 74hornet 74hornet wrote:



</span>

I have to ask, what us the blue and red lines in the front of your carb? Is it anodized fuel lines? Its hard to see it clearly with this old phone. Lol


they are the fittings and lines for nitrous,i went with black look now when i changed the nitrous for a bigger system,the 175hp too small for the new motor Wink
Nice!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mopar440cu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2016 at 8:08am
Originally posted by amcenthusiast amcenthusiast wrote:

hee hee gotcha goin'!

but hopefully I gotcha thinkin too...
In a friendly note, I was just looking for a better upgrade from the stock bent up valve covers I have. The previous owner tightened the dang things too much. lol As for adding more power to my newest  360 Jeep project I think I'm right where I want to be, hp wise. I understand what you are trying to say by spending more money on your engine components rather than worrying about the valve cover looks but, I assure you this is not the case. I just want a better looking, longer lasting valve cover that does the same job. For me AMC is a whole new animal to work on than Chevy, Ford and Chrysler, which I am use to but, love learning about it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2016 at 8:39am
humorous that my extra long comment got quoted again or I would have deleted it now that Bubblefender edited his post (thanks and oops again!)

not to spotlight or call anyone stupid, I wanted to be polite and give my example of a 7000 rpm nodular iron bottom end AMV8 > to say 'yes, it can be done' -and give a nod to AM's book Performance American Style

because to me, I associate the tall valve cover look with a high rpm valvetrain, but my engine build with 6800 max rpm cam and kit (all the parts recommended by Erson) did not need the tall covers

and I'm willing to sacrifice some of my personal reputation with a long reply like that just so other AMCers know that the stock AMV8 valve covers are better than most other designs because the curved top definitely deflects oil back down onto the valve springs (not just for lube, but for using the oil as a coolant)

AM's Performance American Style sort of dodges the lack of 7000+ rpm high rpm potential of the nodular iron bottom end AMV8 by saying all AMV8s built for a higher level of performance should be internal balanced and consider getting a Moldex billet crank (even for the forged steel bottom end AMV8s)

so I think a nodular iron bottom end AM 304 can be built into a semi-serious performance engine but I don't think the original poster will need tall valve covers -assuming he's not going to use a billet crank and custom rods because he's going a low buck route possibly using the drilled head bolt 290 Typhoon 10 to 1 heads to get a tad more compression

the same money (mis-spent?) could go into buying mallory metal to have the crank internal balanced instead


Edited by amcenthusiast - Oct/25/2016 at 8:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Bubblefender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2016 at 9:18am
Don't get too hung up on the radius of the valve covers. The springs will be bathing in oil and foamy oil. The angle of the casting on the top of the head allows a tremendous amount of oil to pool and the drain back holes on the top allow it to sit there and slowly recirculate. This is one of the reasons AMC springs and valves last so long. Oil will find its way to the edge of the valve cover and in the spring area without a big swooping radius underneath the valve cover because it is pushed at an angle past the pushrod holes where it might drain.

If you want to say advantage you could also say disadvantage with a velocity change in the oil. Will dispersion follow a common spread path? Only to a point at which velocity widens the spread or the path is impeded by an abrupt change in flow from hitting the valve cover and the spread changes from impact speed.


Its a cool concept the radius helping the oil flow as it spurts out. Can you discount it...I don't think so...can you give it great credence? ...I don't know but I have my doubts.
We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564
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