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Upgrading from original 2 barrel on 287 |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Getting a little more punch is going to be tough. I'd go with a factory 4V intake providing you can find one, and a 500-600 cfm carb. The Edelbrock 500 cfm (#1403, with electric choke) would probably be your best bet. The smaller barrels will mean a bit better throttle response.
You can stick with a bit larger 2V and would probably get close to the same results, but the 4V would be more economical as it would run on half the carb half the time. Would be a bit less cash to stick with a 2V as you don't have to change the intake. An Autolite 2100 with a 1.21, 1.23 or 1.33 barrel (venturi) size would be good (300, 351, 424 cfm). Note that cfm rating methods are different for 2V and 4V carbs! To convert a two-barrel rating into a comparable four-barrel rating, divide the two-barrel rating by 1.414. To convert the four-barrel rating to a comparable two-barrel rating, multiply the four-barrel rating by 1.414. So a 350 cfm 2V is comparable to a 248 cfm 4V. A 500 cfm 4V would compare to a 707 cfm 2V. The 500/4V works okay because you only run on half the cfm (comparable to a 350 cfm 2V) capacity most of the time, and the secondaries (other half) only opens AS NEEDED. An otherwise stock 287 probably wouldn't pull the secondaries more than half way open, so you'd only be pulling no more than about 500 cfm wide open. You don't need but about 350 cfm (the stock carb is about 250 cfm). Just remember, the only way to get more "get up and go" is to burn more fuel!! The smaller the barrels the better throttle response (feel at the gas pedal) because the air/fuel mixture is moving faster in the intake. Get the big 424 cfm 2V (or a 500 cfm Holley 2300... there is a 350 cfm version that would work well) and floor it and the engine will likely bog. It wouldn't with the vacuum secondary 500 cfm 4V because only the two primary barrels would snap open -- the other two would gradually come in as engine speed (and vacuum) picked up. If you open the choke flap and look down your carb you will see the two barrels. |
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Frank Swygert
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Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
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I have no experience with the 287 but it should easily use a
500 Eddy (Carter) 4bbl on a stock 327 AMC 4bbl manifold. Just for the Chevy crowd, a 327 AMC aint a Chevy and it pre-dates the 327 Chevy by 5+ years". |
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Gremlin Dreams
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Ok, here's the deal. A larger carburetor only gives you more power if your engine is actually capable of sucking in more fuel and air. The stock Holley 2209 is ~280 CFM. That is more air than your engine is actually capable of sucking in until about 4000 RPM. Meaning a larger carburetor will not make more power below 4000 RPM. However, above 4000 RPM the 2209 does start to restrict and reduce power, but your engine seldom ever goes above 4000 RPM. If you have an automatic transmission, it never lets the engine go over 4500 RPM and if you have a manual transmission there is no point in going over 4500 RPM because the 287 V8 doesn't make its best power at RPM that high anyway. These are low RPM truck engines. Let me put it to you another way. I had a larger 327 V8 with that same 2209 carburetor. I switched to a 465 CFM 4-barrel carburetor and it did not make a huge difference. It's like 10-15 horsepower at the most. And that's on a larger 327. A 287 would benefit even less from a carburetor larger than the 2209. We all watch the TV shows about modifying engines with bigger carbs, see all the cars at car shows with big carbs, and hear folks talking about bigger carbs and we think "bigger is better". No. Bigger cars are good on a modified engine that needs more airflow than it did stock. A stock engine is physically incapable of sucking in more air, so the original stock carburetor is often sized just about right. That 2209 will do exactly what you need it to. It was too little for my 327, but it's just right for a 287.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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Rebel327
AMC Nut Joined: Jan/26/2014 Location: Toledo Ohio Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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FSJunkie is dead on 100%. Great post.
Stock cams run out of steam at -+4400 rpm. |
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Midnight Rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/17/2011 Location: SoCT Status: Offline Points: 1670 |
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500cfm Circle track carb, I had one on my 290, it flat-spotted on acceleration and was awful on gas. The switch to the 500cfm Edelbrock 1403 is like night and day. Better throttle response and mileage, and tuned better out of the box than I could ever get that 4412. |
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'66 American 440 Convertible 290/M-40/AMC 20 3.15/PS/PB '04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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I get a lesson in over-carburetion every time I drive my bone stock Buick 231 V6. It has a 290 CFM Rochester 2bbl. That is the stock carb. GM used it because that was the smallest 2bbl they had but it's on the big side for that engine. It's ok at sea level, but at high altitude there is even less airflow through the carb so an already large carburetor becomes even worse. Literally it has no more power with the throttle wide open than it has at 1/2 because the carburetor already flows all the air the engine can handle at 1/2 throttle. Opening the throttle more makes no difference. It can also hesitate or stall if you stomp on the gas from a standing start. Opening up that much carburetor on such a small engine at low RPM and at high altitude just doesn't get enough velocity through the barrels to meter fuel well. Meanwhile my 232 I6 has a 210 CFM 1bbl carb. It behaves much nicer. I know it restricts above 4000 RPM, but I don't really care because I hardly ever rev that high anyway. You get a different feel with a small carb verses a big one too. Big carbs tend to be "twitchy" to their throttle opening off-idle. Meaning you barely crack the throttle and the car takes off, but you don't get much more power the more you open the throttle. It's like all the power is in the first little bit of carburetor opening. Small carbs let you slowly "roll into" the throttle and get much more control. You don't really get the power until you actually start to get the throttle pretty wide. You get more precise control. I like that.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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That's why a 4V feels better, and a vacuum 4V is best (for a street car). Running on half the carb feels like a small carb, but the secondaries will open as far as the engine will use the added fuel, and no more. The 500 cfm 4V will work as good as the stock 2V at low speeds, and as I mentioned, probably won't open the secondaries more than half way at higher speed -- flowing around 350 cfm on that engine. But it would be better at low speeds (feel, power, and economy wise) than a 350 cfm 2V.
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Frank Swygert
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Skippy
AMC Fan Joined: Jan/06/2018 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I seems the consensus is that of either a 300/350 CFM 2bbl or replace the intake manifold and use a 500 CFM 4bbl. I'll consider both of these. I really appreciate all the responses and people willing to help me out; however, I still have the problems of:
• my air filter doesn't fit anything besides the current carb (a 2209 I believe?). • I'm not sure how which hoses go where and on the 2bbl I have right now there's more openings than hoses. I don't know if that'll be standard for every carb or if I buy a carb new it'll come with the stuff to solve that. I want to thank you guys again for your help, I really appreciate it. |
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Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
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Any modern v8 in the 5 liter class will pull a 500 Eddy (Carter) open by 3500 rpm. That 287 would love a 600 or 500 Eddy. Heck, my 1970 390 pulled two 625 Comp Series Carters open by 3500 rpm. It was one helluva ride! I would not put a Holley 4bbl on it. |
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Gremlin Dreams
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one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
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I find it very hard to believe that a 500 cfm carb it to big for a 287....i ran a 600 Carter on my 289 for 12 years...and a 600 Holley Vac secondary on my 302....both had no problems opening the secondary`s at a low rpm 3,000 to 3,500...the 289 was in my 80 mustang (Pretty light with some gear) the 302 was in my Granada ...same ball park as a 990 and i had 2.73 gears..The 2 barrel Holley is a poor choice for the street...Ventures and blades way to big...poor vacuum signal...exc
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68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
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