TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Electrical - non engine
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - turn signal switch, 68 vs. 69 American...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

turn signal switch, 68 vs. 69 American...

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 3125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: turn signal switch, 68 vs. 69 American...
    Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 12:41pm
so i have this '68 American in overall great shape, wiring included, except that the turn signal switch failed 40 years ago (according to P.O. documents), when he had installed an aftermarket, clamp-on thing. he chopped the wire bundle off the column guts to get the connector. upon disassembly the original switch was hacked up and missing parts, beyond repair (and i'm a Rambler Mentality cheapskate).

so i bought a replacement switch from Rockauto, Shee-Mar SM726. tho listed under "1968", it's not. the part packaging is marked "69-67 Ambassador with auto trans". whatever, it's the sole choice. i drilled the hole for the flasher switch. it otherwise fits OK (had to use only two retainer screws and springs but they're 180 apart and it's all snug). its of overall decent quality.

this is a column-shifted manual transmission car (the excreble T-96, they seem to follow me around and haunt me).

SM726 gave me working turn signals (yay!), but brakes don't work through it, and the hazard flashers may not work (tbh haven't diagnosed that yet; could be bad/missing hazards flasher).

for now, i popped out the slide-on connector from the two-pin brake connector, and ran a hot wire over from the fuse block BRAKE position (which was empty?!), and so i have turn signals, and brake signal, but not both at the same time; brake pedal overrides turns (since it's not run through the switch). at least i won't die in traffic.


so: it seems 67, 68, 69, ... there were year to year (and mid year) changes. i have a 69 TSM, not 68, but i can read schematics, and i'm good with electric troubleshooting, and i can write. so i'll probably puzzle that part out.

but no where have i seen the switch wiring/switch logic for the turn signal assembly itself. i know it's a complex combo of weird logic to get all the combinations of lights right (it's actually subtle).


has anyone performed this foolish task and survived? and had brake lights run through the SM726? or have a schematic of the (or any) AMC, pre-GM, turn signal switch?

i suppose i should find a 68 TSM.



Edited by tomj - Aug/13/2019 at 12:47pm
1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14991
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 12:51pm
I have a 1969 Rambler. And at Oriellys parts books dont even list a 1969 Rambler.....I know the 1969 Rambler has the cable for the throttle...68 older uses a bellcrank.
Back to Top
Midnight Rambler View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/17/2011
Location: SoCT
Status: Offline
Points: 1341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/13/2019 at 1:11pm
I'm pretty sure the flashers are wired in downstream of the signal switch, so maybe the plugin flasher module is missing or bad.  My '66 American still has the brake light switch on the underside of the master cylinder so if your blinkers work and you sort out the flashers maybe you can brake light from the master.  It's a two-pin screw in unit that works off fluid pressure, it might be an easier fix.  Otherwise, I'd pull out the wallet and get a new signal unit from one of the vendors.

'66 American 440 Convertible 290/WC M-37/AMC 20 3.15
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 3125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 11:45am
problem solved. turns out to be everyone's favorite Rambler electrical component: the fuse panel. what a surprise.

every Rambler i've had has had fuse panel problems; corrosion leads to hot fuses leads to corrosion, bending fuse clips to "improve" it, etc. the BRAKE output that was blank, that i jumpered to the switch to get the car home was the (4 ampere) feed for instrument panel brake-related indicators (that the base model car doesn't have). the red/white tracer along the bottom is the real brake circuit feed, and the hot side clip was corroded and bent.

i took the panel out of the car and it was (as they always are) filled with dirt, green copper crud, black spots, etc. i gambled on cleaning it with phosphoric acid, and wow, that worked great. soft scrub brush, about 60 seconds in the acid and then 15 minutes of hardcore rinsing (even a trace of that stuff left in will eat it over time). that worked miracles. bright shiny plating still intact. drilled out the rivets to remove the black backing to clean, and rinse/soak so there's no acid left. i'll seal it and replace the drilled rivets as spacers.

i acid'ed the fuses too and this revealed that some of the fuses had their butts sanded, removing the plating. i'll replace those.



midnight rambler: the correct part doesn't seem to be available at all. i can't afford Blaser's so i didn't call them (their stuff is top-notch, but too much $$ for me). the Shee-Mar switch works. $88 and new manufacture, plugs right in to 1968 though as i said mounting requires rethink for 1968 manual trans with the square hole.



1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

Back to Top
Midnight Rambler View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/17/2011
Location: SoCT
Status: Offline
Points: 1341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 12:13pm
Awesome.  I had to get a NOS switch, and it was pricey.

'66 American 440 Convertible 290/WC M-37/AMC 20 3.15
'04 Jeep Wrangler X Rocky Mountain Edition 4.0 5sp
Back to Top
LakesideRamblin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/21/2015
Location: So. California
Status: Offline
Points: 1888
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LakesideRamblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 3:57pm
Phosphoric acid - Hmmm.  Sounds like a plan for my 69 Rambler.  Those fuse panels draw crud like a magnet.  Yeah, I also have looked at Blaser's.  Good stuff, great stuff, but I need to pay next month's mortgage.
LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 220 360
73 Javelin 360
"If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt
Back to Top
mmaher94087 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Apr/01/2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1001
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmaher94087 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/14/2019 at 7:39pm
"Phosphoric acid - Hmmm."  A less reactive product (great for brass) is Lemon-shine found at your food market in the dish soap isle.  For the hunters/reloaders; this is good for washing spent brass prior to reloading.  A dip in the pool for 4-8 hours and a good water rinse and dry will make anything brass look new.
Mike
Back to Top
george w View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 1798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote george w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 5:20am
Bar Keepers Friend powdered cleanser ( not the liquid ) and a little water also does a great job cleaning up copper and brass contacts and circuit board contact lands. It cleans almost instantly and washes right off with water.
Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 3125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 1:07pm

here's before, a closeup of half the board. it's moderately awful; we've all seen worse!



here's after cleaning. put the board in my gloved hand, sprayed some phosphoric acid on it, scrubbed. maybe a minute or two. then a ton of rinsing.



above, look closely at the insides of the fuse clips. that's where the trouble lies. i'm sure the plating is pitted at the microscopic level, but all the oxides are gone.

it occurred to me afterwards that re-plating in an electroless nickel or electroless tin (printed circuit stuff) might fill in/cover over thos unseeable pits. oh billd, ... ?


OK then i got paranoid about residue phosphoric acid under the cover on the rear, so i drilled out the rivets. i neglected to take pics. it actually wasn't bad, i probably didn't need to. but i scrubbed the whole thing again in soapy water and bristle brush and rinsed rinsed rinsed. then baked dry in the hot sun and coated with a polyurethane coating top and bottom (not on fuse clip/fastons) then reattached the cover.

IT PURTY


1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/27/2010
Location: los angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 3125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/15/2019 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by george w george w wrote:

Bar Keepers Friend powdered cleanser ( not the liquid ) and a little water also does a great job cleaning up copper and brass contacts and circuit board contact lands. It cleans almost instantly and washes right off with water.


yeah that feldspar-based stuff is great. i use Bon Ami (local hardware store carries it) and i've used it many times to clean old windshields. on the roadster i had the windshield out, so laid it on a plastic table with a towel under, razored the goo off, Bon Ami both sides, very gentle pressure with my bare hand, lots of water, lather rinse repeat... worked great.

anyhoo i'm far afield of a turn signal switch here.

1961 roadster american, 195.6 OHV, T5
1968 american, 199ci, T96
sr-ix.com

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or