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Trying to tread lightly as a newbie, but, |
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Kansas Transit
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/28/2014 Location: Glasco, Kansas Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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You are right Keith, it is a "T" on the tag.
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RamblinMan
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/26/2007 Location: Port Charlotte Status: Offline Points: 1237 |
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I hear mixed signals. At first its kinda sounds like you want a nice reliable daily driver, and then you ask about filling the bottom of the block. While those aren't necessarily at odds, they seem to indicate two different directions.
If I wanted a good reliable daily driver, I'd to a basically stock rebuild with a very mild cam and a fresh small carburetor. As for modern fuels and carbs, I have ZERO problems running carburetors with modern fuels. However, I can definitely see the draw of fuel injection, just be prepared to spend $2.5K+ for a marginal (if any) power increase over a well-tuned carburetor. I'd also stick a 5-speed in it and enjoy the highway cruise at 1500 rpms and wonderful gas mileage. If you're REALLY going for a hot street car, the 360+ is what I'd go for. Be aware that your fuel mileage will pretty much suck compared to the 290, especially for a daily driver. Everybody I know that has had a Wagoneer (admittedly HEAVY) with a 360, complained about <10mpg gas mileage and that's dead stock. Others may do better, but everybody I know (in person) had that same complaint. I have 401 in a 2600# car and only get 3-4 mpg because of the 3600 stall converter. When I put my 2800 back in, I will probably get in the realm of 6 mpg. Of course that's with a 950 Pro Systems carb on a Torker, relatively hot hydraulic cam and Edelbrock heads. Mine is NOT a daily driver. Edited by RamblinMan - Oct/29/2014 at 12:58pm |
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The Right Reverend of Blessed Acceleration
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Kansas Transit
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/28/2014 Location: Glasco, Kansas Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Your not wrong, the reason I started this post is that I am LOOKING for a direction, I did state my goals, and they are what I would want my end result to be, I'm just trying to pluck some knowledge on what will work, what won't and how far I could "push" that envelope.
To be honest, you probably have a far better selection of fuel where you are than we do. I literally live in the middle of nowhere, town of 500 people and our fuel consists on 87 octane reg, or 89 octane blend. My Firebird has ample cooling, insulated lines and a high volume pump. On either of these fuels I have boiling problems on days over 95 degrees, and just so you don't think it's an old carb, fuel delivery problem, my 07 Yamaha FJR1300 will stall and runs badly, and it is carbed. However none of my new vehicles 2012 Buick Lacrosse, 2014 F150 5.0 or even my 2009.5 Pontiac G8 GXP have an issue, so I am pretty certain that the only way to solve this is to put the fuel under higher pressure, ie, fuel injection. Stan Edited by Kansas Transit - Oct/29/2014 at 1:12pm |
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232jav3sp
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2013 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2451 |
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Another option for you would be to put a 304 in it. That is the successor to the 290, and there are many that still pop up. Won't make the power that a 360 can, but, it's an option for a good cruising engine. I know there are a few on here that probably have a "hot" 304 that may chime in. A five speed is a wonderful thing and will allow you to play with gearing and tire heights while still maintaining good cruising rpms. If fuel injection is the route you want to go with, but don't want to break the bank, you could retro a GM TBI system to it. Not like that is a new thing to do and not complicated. You could also convert it to a 4.0L I6 from a Jeep Grand Cherokee from 1991-up and take all the EFI hardware with it. That'll give you 190hp stock and will cruise well. Edited by 232jav3sp - Oct/29/2014 at 9:38pm |
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Do you have a return style fuel system on the Firebird or deadhead? Return style may help. Even later AMCs with carbs ran return style fuel filters. Also, likely need to change jetting from cold to hot temperatures - same jetting isn't optimal for both.
Not too far back I ran a daily driver Hornet with 304, Performer intake, Performer manual choke carb, 204/214 cam, freeflows, dual 2 1/4" exhaust, Motorcraft electronic distributor, later 998 transmission w/stock high stall converter. Worked fine for -30F to 90F. Cruised fine up to 65mph. Got better mileage than stock, but only around 16 mpg(US) mostly highway. Changed metering rods winter to summer. What's your budget and realistic goals? If you're in a small town in middle of nowhere, going to be tough to scrounge parts for cheap, so likely need to rebuild what you've got, get mostly new stuff or transplant a modern driveline. Cruising at 75mph while maintaining good low end really wants an OD transmission. If you want OD, EFI, etc. going to cost a fair bit. How much is the Javelin worth to you as likely to cost a fair bit more than what you could sell it for. Not trying to discourage, just trying to be realistic. I know I spent more on a basic engine rebuild than I paid for my entire car ('74 Javelin) ... and fitting a T56 cost more than the engine. Costs add up in a hurry ... especially if also needs paint and body. Thanks,RD. |
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Kansas Transit
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/28/2014 Location: Glasco, Kansas Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Really good points Red, as far as the FB goes, I had run it both ways, no difference, but as soon as I run 70 miles down the road to "good/better" fuel, the issues go away.
I don't really have a budget per se, the car was my MIL's and my wife would like to keep more for sentimental than any other reason. I REALLY hate to state it here, but you bring up a valid point, I could probably swap in a coyote 5.0 at 420hp with a 6sp and it would do everything I would want, and I can get motor trans and controller for less than 8,000. To rebuild what I have would probably be more money less power/reliability, BUT, as I stated on the OP, I really don't like swapping out of motor families. That's the real reason I was asking all of the questions, to see if it would be feasible to stick with what I have, but you are right, parts out here are nonexistent, EVERYTHING is mail order! |
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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I'm also from a small town. Only reason I kept the Hornet going for so long is it got hand-me-down parts as I upgraded the Javelin over the years and my family had a dozen or so AMCs kicking around in a scrap yard I could scrounge parts from. The Javelin is now just a summer cruising car.
It's sure nice to keep AMC power, but understand why people fit something else. May be easier to find AMC stuff nowadays with internet, but shipping can still be a problem. As for cautions on AMCs: - roller cams seem to be an issue as suitable lifters seem to be a challenge to get. Best bet is likely to bush to Chevy or Ford size or just stay flat tappet and use good oil or additives for flat tappet. - oiling system: If driving hard mostly street, recommend an Aviaid or Armando road race style pan and pay attention to assembled clearances. Timing sets can be spotty, some cams have lobe issues, use stock or Bulltear distributor gears. - cooling system: Aluminum rads are available as are aftermarket pumps. I haven't had issues with stock big rad. - brakes: Wilwood, Scarebird, Control Freaks, Aerospace have kits. Stock is ok for stock type use. - transmission: T10 is ok, but not a good combo for 75mph cruising. Lots have done T5s and a few Richmonds, TKOs and T56s ... Quicktime has a bell to fit GM style. - AMC20 is fine with upgraded axles. Good gear and carrier selection as also used in Jeeps. - Control Freaks has suspension kits. Prothane has bushings. - AMC vendors have some sheet metal and small bits or list in Wanted section. Hope this helps,RD. |
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Kansas Transit
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/28/2014 Location: Glasco, Kansas Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Thanks again for the response, the project is a go as I have already ordered almost 2,000.00 worth of body parts along with some tubing and sheet metal I already have leftover from an old gasser project.
Two quick questions, when upgrading axles, does it get rid of the two piece splined issue.? Also I have seen some dist. that look like an HEI, are these reworked AMC dist, or is someone offering HEI in an AMC spec? Can I also assume these are "onewire" HEI? Stan Edited by Kansas Transit - Oct/29/2014 at 2:34pm |
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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I'm still running the stock AMC20 ... but don't drag race and try not to launch hard. Lots say the stock two-piece axles are fine on the street if you keep nuts torqued properly. One-piece are a good upgrade if running hard and yes, eliminates the separate hub. Most go to Moser ... but any axle guy should be able to make them. All custom order.
Not really a fan of HEI ... but seems to be a few out there? Some of the cheap ones are questionable. MSD has a drop-in ready-to-run distributor or has a distributor and box. Mallory and Accel also have distributors. Good points will get you by. Lots run a Pertronix, Crane or similar points conversion since stock is a Delco style. Later use the Motorcraft style and can still get distributor and box from parts houses. I've got an MSD with the Ford-style cap-a-dapt and a Crane box. |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Cheapest and easiest option is most likely to rebuild your existing motor.
The stock motors, exactly as they came from the factory, tuned to factory spec, run perfect. They will cruise 75 MPH on a 100 degree day and start perfectly on not only 30* weather, but 0* weather. I live in Kansas. We are extreme weather central. It's 102 degrees here in the summer and -10 degrees in the winter. Both of my stock AMC engines start without trouble in the winter and pass people on the interstate in the summer. My neglected as heck old 232 six started on a -10 day while buried under nearly 2 feet of snow. Is that not good enough? I've seen many modern EFI cars not do that well. Old engines are only unreliable if they are allowed to deteriorate or if some gear-head gets under the hood and starts fooling with things he shouldn't be. Edited by FSJunkie - Oct/29/2014 at 7:36pm |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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