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Transmission lever revisited.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2018 at 8:32am
If you have 2x shift levers and the room you could cut the opposing ends off, drill and tap one side and slot the other to make an adjustable lever. Recommend 2 bolts, and flatten the mating surfaces.
Obviously something is amiss and outside the box is all that's left, unless your willing to do everything new from a donor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2018 at 9:28am
Part number for the shifter and for the base the shifter pivots in - the part that bolts to the floor, is the same 71 through 74.
So, that being said, even if the shifter I have is from a 71 or 72, since the part number is the same for the shifter and the base, in other words, the shifter "assembly" - that won't matter - I could use a shifter assembly from 71 or 74 and it would be the same as for a 73

OK - the shifter part itself is cleared up. I can discount the shifter being wrong for the car - it isn't since it's a Javelin shifter for those 4 years.

The rod - I'd PREFER a correct rod of the correct length with the correct bends.
Why? Because of the forces involved, and clearing, and I'd prefer a ONE PIECE rod.
So I'll be looking to buy a correct shift ROD from a 71 through 74 Javelin with a 360 or 401.
Then I won't worry about the length and angles. Correct in that it still moves the same amount, but it's the direction of the moves, angles, forces, and having one that pushes straight ahead on the lever and not outward like the one I lengthened to make it fit.
I'll be putting up a wanted ad for the shift ROD.

Lever - phat is right, column shift for 72 with a 360 or 401 uses the same lever as floor shift for 72 with a 360 or 401. So if a person has a 72 Javelin and changes from column to floor shift,, they can use the same lever on the transmission selector shaft.
Ah, but if you have a 73 or 74 with a 360 or 401 - the part number for that lever is DIFFERENT.
A person can convert a column shift 73 with a 360 or 401 to a floor shift and use the same lever on the transmission as the part number is the same column shift or floor shift.

But - if I had no lever and needed one, according to the BOOK, I'd need a lever from a 73 or 74 column or floor shift car with 360 or 401 to be correct.

The part number for 1972 column or floor shift with 360 or 401 is 3213545
The part number for 73-74 column or floor shift with 360 or 401 is 3219209

Different lever used starting with 73.

So assuming the lever on my car is the original that came with the column shifter from the factory, it should be correct for a floor shift. Scott showed the dimension to be the same (and other than the outer hole, they look the same - my outer hole is round where his has an area notched out as if for a plastic bushing as used LATER)

All of this means that technically, the shifter should be the same since AMC parts book shows the same shifter used in all of the big Javelins.
The lever should be correct assuming it is what came with the car - in any case, it matches what Scott showed save for the shape of the outer hole. The distance is the same and that is the only really critical part except the placement of the flat or D part. And even that appears to be the same. IF the flat was in a different place, then the angles would change and the distance between gears WOULD change.
So it's not only the hole spacing, it's where that flat or D area is. The lever swings an arc - change where in that swing it sits for P and you change the distance needed to move the rod for a gear change. Simple geometry! 
But the levers look the same, and I'll assume the PO did NOT follow the instructions that came with the B&M shifter and did not change the lever but left the original in place.

That means something else is going on..........  and to be total anal and picky on it, I'll try to find a CORRECT original rod. It shouldn't change a thing....... but if it's pushing at a weird angle, maybe it's not getting to the next position as easily as it should meaning the shifter has to travel a tad father to get there but then is too far for the detent once the transmission snaps into gear via the detent in the transmission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2018 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

If you have 2x shift levers and the room you could cut the opposing ends off, drill and tap one side and slot the other to make an adjustable lever. Recommend 2 bolts, and flatten the mating surfaces.
Obviously something is amiss and outside the box is all that's left, unless your willing to do everything new from a donor.


Funny you should mention that - as if I had a second lever I would do exactly that! Make an adjustable one and be done with it. Yes, if I only had a second lever to work with.
I do want a CORRECT rod so maybe I should advertise for a lever AND correct rod. 
I agree and had actually thought about something where I cold loosen a couple of small bolts and slide an end in or out to compensate for whatever is amiss. 

Of course maybe I've been looking at the bloody thing for waaay too long and another set of better eyes could look at it and say "geesh, you missed something here". It's not easy with the headers in the way and it's a mess under there (the guy was no mechanic or tech so there's leaks, stuff messed up, stuff in the way, just not how I'd have done it at all)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2018 at 11:04am
The rod angle will make a small difference on the geometry but if the shift lever (handle) pivot point is up higher then it should be, this would make quite a difference. The higher it is off the proper pivot height then the shorter the throw, which seems to be your problem.
Just to clarify this is the interior shifter location I'm talking about and not at the transmission.
Just throwing this one out as it has not been discussed - may not be the issue. 


Edited by Trader - May/15/2018 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2018 at 6:34pm
Hey Bill, here is one option to keeping that rear suspension under control.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2018 at 6:51pm
i looked them up and have a question after seeing the design - you remove the front spring bushing and replace it with an aluminum bushing and their bracket goes on either side of the spring eye, etc.
This means the front end of the spring is bolted SOLIDLY to the car and not riding a rubber bushing. 
I assume that means the suspension vibrations, etc. are then transmitted directly to the vehicle.
Is this correct?
They ain't cheap - but it also looks like there are some copies out there, about half the price but similar in shape and function. I have no clue how good - or not good - those would be but I wonder how much change there is to road vibrations being transmitted to the chassis with these since you remove the bushing at the front end of the springs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pit crew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/02/2018 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

i looked them up and have a question after seeing the design - you remove the front spring bushing and replace it with an aluminum bushing and their bracket goes on either side of the spring eye, etc.
This means the front end of the spring is bolted SOLIDLY to the car and not riding a rubber bushing. 
I assume that means the suspension vibrations, etc. are then transmitted directly to the vehicle.
Is this correct?
They ain't cheap - but it also looks like there are some copies out there, about half the price but similar in shape and function. I have no clue how good - or not good - those would be but I wonder how much change there is to road vibrations being transmitted to the chassis with these since you remove the bushing at the front end of the springs.
They also will work just fine if you use a rubber or poly front bushing. That will keep down some of the vibrations. We have done a few that way too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/02/2018 at 5:39pm
Come to think of it, you may have mentioned that at GAD - and if so, I forgot. It makes sense since there's really little "movement" with a bushing up front, and that's not what makes the thing work anyway.
I guess I'll have to do 20 or 30 more alternators or wipers and save my pennies - it's a real pain trying to keep that thing from going sideways and every-which-way when you punch it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/02/2018 at 7:05pm
Maybe time to start a new topic.
But are your rear wheels outside width distance larger then the front wheel outside width?
A little trick in round track was to have the front wider then the rear so you could "punch it" on the corners without the rear kicking out.
I have mine set up 1" narrower at the rear and there is not hint of going sideways. Just straight thrust line all the way. Corners nice also at speed. If there is a downside I don't know but I'm sure there are other opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/02/2018 at 7:22pm
I'm referring to STRAIGHT line acceleration.
When going straight down a road/street, or whatever, and moving or not, say I'm going 30 and punch it, it breaks loose and goes sideways. I lose all traction. The engine has too much torque and when I nail it, it sends the car sideways. Down a drag strip I'm afraid I'd hit a wall - it's not easy to steer out of without letting up and letting the tires take hold again. 
I can't lay into it without breaking loose.
393 ft/lb torque at 4500
376 hp at 5500
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