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Torque tube

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tubular_joe View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 7:36pm
My '66 Classic has a wobble at about 30 mph since I had the engine out & in, and I'm thinking I tore the cushion at the transmission end of the torque tube when the tranny jack leaked and it dropped down. Anyone else know about this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 8:49pm
If you are referring to the doughnut rubber bushing where the torque tube attaches to the transmission, then yes that is possible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tubular_joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 9:26pm
Thanks. It's my best guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gtoman_us Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/14/2018 at 12:11pm
It is called the Trunnion. Galvin's and Balzers have the replacement part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2018 at 6:25am
Or you can make one if you can find some high density rubber. That's hard to find, but rubber from something like a HD truck bed mat or a horse stable mat would work. Those are about an inch thick so you'd have to glue two together, then glue to a VERY CLEAN torque tube plate (the plate that bolts to the trans). Rubber cement will usually work to hold it in place and together. Won't hurt if the glue breaks down, just means the two pieces will fall out when the TT is unbolted in the future.

Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2018 at 6:33am
The rubber cushion being "torn" isn't usually an issue. Being worn out from use or oil leaking from the trans is. Might be an issue now because it as disturbed though, could have been stuck in place before being removed.

You don't mention if you have a six or V-8. The V-8 has a double u-joint (double Cardan joint) constant velocity joint. There is a centering device (pin and spring) in the connector between the two joints that keeps it straight. That wears out and can easily be disturbed when taking out. There are not repair kits available, unless Galvins has finally had them reproduced (they were supposedly working on that a few years ago). There are a couple solutions, the one most take is to have a driveshaft shop remove the CV joint and replace with a single joint. The 56-62 V-8 Ramblers only used a single joint, the CV is a 63-66 only part. Lincoln used a similar (if not the same) joint, but they only used it a few years in the early to mid 60s also.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2018 at 8:32am
...Both the 6 and 8 cylinder torque tube cars use the same torque tube outside shell as far as I know, but the driveshafts themselves are different; the 6 has a solid shaft & the 8 has a two piece with a slip joint in it... but both use a double u-joint device at the transmission slip yoke.

It's a complex study of geometry but basically all u-jointed driveshafts must use two u-joints in order to prevent the driveshaft from speeding up and slowing down as it turns (in this case the two u-joints are located at the front of the driveshaft)

If I recall correctly, there's not a whole lot of wiggle room for the torque tube assembly's outer tube to move around within the bolt on outer collar, but if the vulcanized rubber goes mushy (with age & combined with a fluid leak etc) they always settle downward.

Imagining yours is settled down, having the weight of the assembly resting on the lower portion of the trans mount adapter, it does seem like you might be able to DIY fashion and insert a strip of scrap rubber in there to prevent metal to metal contact between the tube and the collar... but to DIY this with scrap rubber you'll really need to put your thinking cap on; the rubber collar is critical to basically hold the whole 'T-bone' drive assembly onto the rest of the car!

IMO, you may have a worn out u-joint, which is causing the driveshaft to wobble and make the car feel like it has a balance problem around thirty miles an hour.

The double u-joint (cardan joint?) does have a peculiar centering device but IMO they never wear out because the spring loaded ball and pivot is rather sturdy for the job; in my experience it's always the u-joints that need to be replaced.

The good thing is the u-joints are nevertheless common sizes but the bad thing is the double u-joint coupler is a true knuckle-buster-PITA to service.

It'll take twice the amount of patience to rebuild the double u-joint coupler device but ~you can do it~ when you set your mind on it & concentrate on doing the job the best you can etc.

It's one of those things where whoever said 'three times a charm' was an idealist (what planet did they come from?) Rather count yourself lucky if it only takes you five times to 'get it right' (at least it didn't take fifty tries to 'get it right'?)

I bet if you replace the u-joints, and do something DIY like fit another small piece of rubber under the tube in the mounting collar area it'll be 'good to go' for the next 20 years or so -hard to judge with no pics to look at though...

Yes: Galvin's AMC Rambler Parts (on the web) has a re-vulcanizing source who remakes the unit like new/with a new rubber cushion.

Feel free to PM or contact me by Email through the website link posted below for more commiseration and info?

I know two junkyards who'll have spare torque tube assemblies to fit your car: John's Auto Salvage in Seguin Tx and CTC Auto Ranch in Denton Tx -both have websites on the web.
 


Edited by amcenthusiast - Jun/15/2018 at 6:11pm
443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2018 at 5:48am
Six cylinder and V-8 torque tubes DO NOT both use a double Cardan CV joint -- sixes use a single joint with solid driveshaft, only the V-8 used a CV joint and a two piece tubular front/solid rear driveshaft. It's possible that there was a HD option for the six that used a CV joint, but it's not mentioned in the TSMs (I have 63-66). At first I thought that maybe just the 196 used a single joint, as 63-64 196  and V-8 cars are all I've personally taken apart, but the 66 TSM clearly states that the 232 powered cars had a single joint. 56-62 use a single u-joint for V-8s and sixes, with V-8 auto cars using a two piece hollow front/solid rear and manual trans cars using a solid shaft like the sixes (but bigger). I checked a couple of the TSMs just to be sure. The CV joint appeared with the 63 models.

Many people have had the spring and/or pin wear out in the centering device. Maybe it's just that they can't get it back in right when rebuilding... who knows? I think a u-joint going out is what causes a slight imbalance or out of alignment condition, but not enough to cause more than a slight vibration at speed, and continuing to drive like that wears out the centering device. That's just a guess though. The u-joints in a torque tube hardly ever cause an issue due to being protected from dust and dirt in the tube. Now that they are 50+ years old it's a different story though. Time takes a toll, especially on things like spring tension in the centering device. Old grease also.

I understand what you're saying about the driveshaft speed. While having two joints smooths the power pulses through the shaft out they are not necessary. One joint will work fine, there are just some uneven power pulses through the shaft. I suspect the long solid shaft AMC used is similar to a torsion bar and simply absorbs those torsional forces, constantly slightly twisting and releasing. I've seen many industrial shafts with only one u-joint, but at only a slight angle. The front u-joint doesn't have much angle, so there isn't a lot of vibration there. The more angle, the power pulsing is more pronounced. Making the bog cars a little smoother running is why they used a CV joint in the 63-66 models.
Frank Swygert
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