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OIL PATH AMC DISTRIBUTOR GEAR OILING

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PHAT69AMX View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul/24/2019 at 2:58am
THANKS TO REBELMACHINE, 401AMBO, 67 MARLIN, AND ALL OTHERS WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD !

Yes, what White70Javelin SST said, I wondered the same thing...
72POS has videos posted on his FaceBook page of his highly modified AMC race motor
running and looking down in the Valve Cover Breather Holes and you would NOT BELIEVE
the amount of OIL circulating around inside those Valve Covers !
Those 2 Oil Drain Back Holes on the corners of the Heads must just be very restrictive relatively.
And they drain into the Lifter Valley -NOT- the Oil Pan...
and the "path" from head to valley is kinda of a more Horizontal flow path than vertical...
Plus all Hydraulic Lifters are -NOT- created equal and who knows just how much
volume of OIL is pumped up top by whatever brand current replacement lifter from the myriad of manufacturers
compared to the volume of oil pumped up onto the heads by stock original AMC Hydraulic Lifters ?...


Edited by PHAT69AMX - Jul/24/2019 at 3:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/22/2019 at 1:49pm
Looking at the picture that Phat posted and came from Traco showing holes drilled in the heads between the pushrod pass through holes. My thought is they only help when the amount of oil in the rocker area is deep enough to flow into those holes, which is what? Maybe a quart or more in each rocker area??  But if the engine is running 7 or 8 quarts, no problem.
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/22/2019 at 1:17am
Well look what I stumbled upon on the Holley / MSD / all else they now own Web Site...
in their Troubleshooting Techniques area... "Modifying AMC oiling for performance"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 3:40pm
Strikingly similar except for the path at the block rear of the lifter galleries. This would provide even oil pressure in both galleries.
The bypass line familiar to everyone is used to ensure pressure front and rear on the right gallery.
The LS is a bit better on the supply side with the "ring" oil gallery - my opinion.
The suction side - the shorter AMC version gets my vote.

The left gallery on the AMC with so little flow was always the first side to build up any "contamination" and the lifters seem to always stick on this side first. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/23/2019 at 9:22am
Just a middle aged hobbyist Hot Rodder guy.  Had a '69 AMX from 1985 to 2014.
Paid shop to do 1st motor rebuild.  Self-assembled the next three.
Web active since about 1995.  Not my ideas, those of many others.
Collected many little "Oil" things that can be done.
Mandatory?  Doubtful.  Helpful?  Maybe.
In no way an endorsement, just a compilation.
Quite a bit here really once all typed up.
Sure there are more, will edit / add as needed.
Kinda 2 categories:
- Do things to what is already there
- Add, change, replace things

AMC V8 Oil System Checks and Modifications

Obvious
- Cam, Crank, & Rod Bearing Clearances to AMC SPEC
- Pick-Up to Pan Clearance to Spec

Lifters
- ? Correct FIT Lifter to Bore, .904 Lifter OD and Lifter Bore ID
- ? Lifter internal design, oil volume passed
- ? Restrictor Push Rods

Rods
- ? Bearing Oil Squirter Notch at Rod / Cap Joint

Oil Pump
- Deburr New Pump Gears and SHAFT SLOT to prevent
  any damage to shaft hole in Timing Cover
- Temporary Assemble New Oil Pump Gear and Actual
  Distributor that will be used for Final Assembly
  w/o Drive Gear to Confirm NO BINDING between
  Pump Gear Shaft Slot & Distributor Shaft Drive Blade
- "Parkman Mod" ? at bottom of Pump Gear Pocket for "anti-surge"
- enlarge / port match Round Outlet Hole in pump cavity pocket
- use late angled cover rather than early 90 cover
- block off filter bypass, or new cover with out
- change threaded filter Adapter for one that fits larger later filter
- inspect Pressure Relief Plunger Passage for finish and size
- soften / blend oil passage intersection corners where possible

Oil Pan
- ? run approx 1 extra Quart, more than 5, less than 6
- ? aftermarket larger Aviad oil pan, but significant cost

Block
- port match Block Front Ports to Gasket / Timing Cover
- confirm / clean drilled passage from pump up to top center oil galley
- blend / soften internal oil galley intersection corners where possible
- 3/8 Pipe Plug - SHALLOW, Pass Side Front of Block
- confirm full drill through Main Saddles up to Lifter Galley
- inspect oil pan rail suction passage
- Pick-Up, confirm no galley obstruction once screwed into pan rail
- ? add ~1/8 oil drain holes in lifter valley, or others ?
- ? Chamfer / Blend 2 Front Oil Drain Holes ?

Drainback
- deburr / blend lifter valley drain back corners
- ? Modify bottom of Timing Cover at Front Bearing Cap "gap" area
- ? Traco Mod, small hole drilled through between Pushrod Holes in Heads

Heads
- inspect / blend / ? enlarge ? cylinder head drain back holes
- No umbrella seals, machine valve guides for Perfect Circle Valve Stem Seals

Cam
- Correct Cam Bearing Installation Oil Hole Size & Location
- confirm front snout stack-up oil passages
- Cam Sprocket, ? Front Face Slinger Grooves, size and quantity ?
- Full Groove front most bearing and/or journal
- bleed hole rear most bearing journal
- Rear Freeze Plug installed depth

-------

And am I seeing things ?
You mean to tell me the new "better than anything before or since" Chevrolet LS V8 Motors have an Oiling Circuit that is more like the AMC !, that being the Oil Pump is now in the Front with a longer Suction Side and it oils the Lifters FIRST and the MAINS are LAST !  Am I seeing things !




Edited by PHAT69AMX - Jan/29/2019 at 12:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 401Ambo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2018 at 7:29am
'72 401 Ambassador wagon

'69 pro-Street AMX (in-progress)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rebel Machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2018 at 6:54am
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Yep, agree, that video shows it plain as day...
Right now I am bumming out because I no longer have parts and
am unable to find a picture of a Timing Cover on a Block without the Oil Pan on the Block
so I can get a visual of the Timing Cover & #1 Crank Bearing Cap
and resulting Oil Drain Back restrictions or limitations, if any... 



I took this pic when I first got my Canton pan. This photo was taken looking straight down along the back side of the timing case into the pan after I beat the front of the pan flatter to align better with the timing case.



Pan to timing case fitment looking at back side of timing case.




Here's the pan to main #1 clearance.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2018 at 1:09am
Found some very interesting AMC Traco Trans Am Engine info in of all places a 1st Gen Camaro Forum...
Like a not previously seen Oil Drain Back Hole Addition Mod to the Cylinder Heads ( pic )...




And this interesting post by CRG Forum member Pigpen, a former Traco Employee:

"TRACO (Jim & Frank) didn't actually become famous because of Chevys or for that matter AMCs.

Yes the Javelin engines put out a little more than the same CID Chevys, but the early AMC track engines could not stand the corners without starving the oil pickup, so there were many not so spectacular blown engines.

There's a lot to be said about the compact design of the small block Chevy, the design facilitated oil return flow from the upper portion of the engine to the oil pan, and there were not a lot of places for the oil to get trapped.

Small block Fords and AMC's had a lot more room in the lifter valley and around the crank, so oil tended to get trapped. The ultimate answer for the AMC's was to run "Dry Sump".

Another interesting difference was the Cyl Head design, Chevy heads had better flow characteristics and required less valve lift than the AMC's, so Chevy cams took far less punishment.

For the bottom end though, the AMC's were very strong through the main bearing area, where Chevys were prone to main web cracking.

Each engine has goods and bads, the trick is enough power and lasting through the entire race."

Pigpen


And here's pics from Eddie Stakes page showing one possible Timing Cover Drain Back Mod:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/21/2018 at 9:02pm
Yep, agree, that video shows it plain as day...
Right now I am bumming out because I no longer have parts and
am unable to find a picture of a Timing Cover on a Block without the Oil Pan on the Block
so I can get a visual of the Timing Cover & #1 Crank Bearing Cap
and resulting Oil Drain Back restrictions or limitations, if any... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amx600rr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/21/2018 at 6:47pm
And it left off the fuel pump eccentric and distributor drive gear so it doesn't show the oil feed passage to the drive gear..... but shows all that WASTED oil slinging out to the timing chain and starving the Distributor gear. 
Jerry


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