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Contains 10% or less of ethanol |
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CloudyB
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Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1576 |
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Topic: Contains 10% or less of ethanolPosted: Aug/03/2008 at 10:48am |
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This has probably been beat to death.
Took the Donohue out yesterday. First time in 4 months.
Where I used to get gas Super or premium now it says Contains 10% or less of ethanol.
Seems I can't find anymore stations selling gas without the ethanol.
Will will this hurt the motor in anyway?
70 390
Do I need to add any additives?
Just wondering your guys opinion.
Or am I freaking out for nothing?
Thanks
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Eagle Kammback
AMC Addicted
Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1855 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 11:35am |
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Doesn' do well in my late truck motor, fuel injected, kills my miileage, don't know what else it is doing though. Be careful. What state are you in? I can't find any place that sells gas with 0% ethanol here in NJ
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The only known furry AMC'er
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Online Status: Offline Posts: 14830 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 1:49pm |
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FACT - 10% blend does not lower mileage (tests by ISU and others have shown that - I could get you documented proof if you like.)
IF you have run-ability or mileage issues with it then you have OTHER issues, it's not the ethanol, the engine isn't well adjusted. Any differences are easily tuned out, but I know of no one who's seen any differences that's I've heard where it can be PROVEN and documented and shown in scientific tests with "controls". Fact - it will NOT damage any current engines or engine components in any way. Fact - it will not damage any "classic" engines in any way as long as things like accelerator pumps and other "soft" carb parts were replaced between about 1975 and current. Again, because of the octane improvement by adding ethanol, it can actually make things better. It will keep things cleaner, and there's less chance of gas line freezing. Back in the mid-70's, auto makers updated their carb parts and all kits and replacement parts were made to be compatible with 10% blend. Why? Iowa has sold 10% ethanol every since the late 70s/early 80's and in fact, you wil not find a station that does not have it! It's about 14 cents cheaper here, and it's 89 octane instead of 87 octane, and it actually often does reduce ping because of the improve octane. there's no "be careful" to it, period. i've been fighting those myths since about 1977. And that's what it is - myth and hearsay. Iowa law states that it's 10%, not "10% or less". It's got to measure 10%. See- it's been our daily fuel for a couple of decades. I've run it in literally EVERYTHING I have owned since it became available - everything - chain saws, lawn mowers, trimmers, 1936 F20 tractor, all cars including the Eagle, Camaros, trucks, the jeeps, etc. I buy nothing else and have bought nothing else for decades - WITH one exception - at times I run a tank of premium through the Javelin, and now with the dist changes, will have to run premium most of the time, and it's not available in 10% blend, but that's the only exception) |
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amx39068
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Joined: Feb/21/2008 Location: Arizona Online Status: Offline Posts: 4085 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 3:03pm |
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You are correct that ethanol at 10% has little or nominal effect on mileage or performance, however at 85%, and it is a major however, E85 has a signficant documented effect on mileage and will render 30% lower fuel economy than conventional gasoline. Why? Because ethanol has considerbaly less dense volume than gasoline thus it burns up faster than gasoline on a gallon per gallon basis. So if a vehicle gets 18 MPG on gasoline it will only get high 12 or very low 13mpg with E85. This is not opinion and is a well documented fact which is proven by the EPA mileage cycle used by all automobile manufacturers. If anyone is unwilling to acknowledge the differences between the volume efficiency of gasoline over ethanol you merely need to look at the EPA numbers for an E-85 GM vehicle which, according to the EPA, gets roughly 30% less miles per gallon on E85 when compared to gasoline, a factor that totally eradicates any price advantage and actually costs more per mile traveled than gasoline. LIkewise on a vehicle that gets 30+ miles per gallon highway, you may actually see a loss in the range of .5 - 1 mpg even with .10% ethanol but on a vehicle that only gets 18-20 MPG the difference is simply too low to be of statistical significance.
As to what it will harm, not much unless you have a boat will an old gelcoat lined gastank(s) where the E85 will break down the molecules in the gellcoat and turn it into sludge resulting clogged up the fuel filters, fuel pumps and carb jets or fuel injetors if so equipped in less than one tank. Again, this is fact and not opinion and is well documented and retrievable from Boat US publications. It is also docuemented by the number of dead in the water rescues that have been required since ethanol based gasoline was introduced at the docks a couple of years ago.
Fortunately back when I had a large ocean going boat with twin Cummins 450 turbo diesels rather than gasoline based motors back in the late 1990s and early 2000s prior to moving to Phoenx, it used diesel fuel which not mixed with ethanol plus the boat had stainless steel gas tanks so it was not an issue for me. Also, if I recally correctly ethanol based gasoline really didn't make it to the marina tanks until around 2004 or 2005. Not being affected by that issue was a very good thing because being dead in the water 20 miles off shore in the ocean with a bad storm front coming through or being in a shipping lane where massive freighters come through is about as scary as anything I can imagine. Edited by amx39068 - Aug/03/2008 at 3:11pm |
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Dan Curtis - d_curtis@q.com, AZ AMC Collector Quality Restorations, engines and parts
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Mountainmoron
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Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Location: Colo. Spgs., CO Online Status: Offline Posts: 5899 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 4:36pm |
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10% ethanol has been sold as the primary gasoline here in CO since the late 80's (apparently it burns cleaner, because when the state Congress mandated that only 10% ethanol would be sold in above 4,000' elev. in CO it was with the intent of cleaning up the air). It used to be something that would only be sold in the winter months, but now 10% is all you can find here year round.
I remember the stations on the eastern CO plains putting signs up saying "No Ethanol" and "Real Gas" years ago. But now 10% ethanol is all they have, too.
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'69 AMX 390EFI, AMO #9412
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CloudyB
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1576 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 7:42pm |
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Thanks for the info Guys.
Just starting to see this everywhere in South East Florida.Unless it has been there and just now seeing the stickers. (Boy where have we been).lol.
Don't answer that.lol.
You all have been a great help as usual.
Thanks
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Online Status: Offline Posts: 14830 |
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Posted: Aug/03/2008 at 8:26pm |
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We were talking about 10%, so I left E85 out of it as that's a TOTALLY different animal.
We run the state cars on E85, and not only is there less mileage, there's less power, too. E85 is a different topic and we've had complete threads here just on E85 and the pros and cons. But for 10%, run it. It's fine. I like it, it's cheaper IN IOWA due to tax advantages (well, we call it that but it's not really exactly or technically that......) and due to the higher octane and other good properties. yeah, bill, the rumors, all false, of all the negatives were all people seemed to believe. As a technician during those early days, I learned all about it in classes and "on the job". And my experience with it over a 30 year time........... Today, you see the imagined negatives popping up again because of some VERY well funded negative ad campaigns........ look into where the money is coming from.... (no not Exxon, etc.) Oil producing nations and POLITICIANS! Guess the states those politicians are from........ but that belongs in that bazillion page thread m-m started LOL |
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CloudyB
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Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1576 |
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Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 5:33am |
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Thanks Billd. Alot of good information.
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Steve_P
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Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 639 |
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Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 7:41am |
This is true. But it's also true re ethanol to a much bigger extent- ethanol for fuel wouldn't exist except for the political pressure from corn producing states (like Iowa) to provide the massive subsidies that allow it to exist. Ethanol, at least from corn, as a motor vehicle fuel is a farce IMO.
I avoid it whenever possible. Edited by Steve_P - Aug/04/2008 at 7:43am |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Online Status: Offline Posts: 14830 |
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Posted: Aug/04/2008 at 8:24am |
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Corn isn't the most effecient method - but on the other hand, it actually does off-set the other subsidies, so you WILL pay the farmer one way or another - in the past, typically to NOT plant. Now, you are paying them to plant. So, it's a wash, IMO. since they would already have price supports in place, this way, they are paying to produce something that can be burned.
It's like the work programs in the depression, no different, IMO.
There are other methods of producing ethanol that are more effecient.
OTOH, it existed here well before the feds picked up on it. and some folks "brew their own" here. It's expected to reach a point where the subsidies will no longer play as big a picture and it will take off on its own.
(is it different than bailing out Chrysler?)
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