'66 232 - Carter WCD - Dripping Nozzles

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   It's not just ethanol blended fuels, it's ALL modern gasoline blends. Seems the chemists have been putting all kinds of "wonderful" miracle additives in gasoline over the last 20 years, most geared toward reducing emissions. Modern gasoline has a higher volatility than it did 40 years ago, even without ethanol in it. I don't doubt that ethanol does affect carbs, but it's not just ethanol. I've never had a problem with ethanol in carbureted vehicles personally, though I've only had one over the last five years (and haven't had one driving the last 18 months). 

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farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7106	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: '66 232 - Carter WCD - Dripping Nozzles Posted: Jul/15/2012 at 1:57pm
	It's not just ethanol blended fuels, it's ALL modern gasoline blends. Seems the chemists have been putting all kinds of "wonderful" miracle additives in gasoline over the last 20 years, most geared toward reducing emissions. Modern gasoline has a higher volatility than it did 40 years ago, even without ethanol in it. I don't doubt that ethanol does affect carbs, but it's not just ethanol. I've never had a problem with ethanol in carbureted vehicles personally, though I've only had one over the last five years (and haven't had one driving the last 18 months).
	Frank Swygert American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com

tloftus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/18/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 137	Post Options Post Reply Quote tloftus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/15/2012 at 12:57pm
	Hi Guys, thanks for the replies. I had a reply written the other night but my wireless connection dropped and I lost it when I tried to submit. Anyway, I'm getting around to writing again. Friday night I pulled the carb off again and did a number of things. #1 - after pulling the choke horn and top plate off the carb bowl I tried blowing through the fuel inlet with my mouth. With the needle seated in the seat I was able to, with a mild amount of pressure, blow air through. The screwdriver I used to put the seat in was not a great fit, so I found something a little better (small trim-sized prybar) to cinch it down after ensuring that there was, in fact, a gasket there. #2 - I pulled the gasket off the top plate and made 1/4" out of my feeler gauge. The floats were set perfectly, so I left them. #3 - I took a high E string from my guitar (that I, coincidentally, don't know how to play) and used it as a probe for the percolator passages. One was clear, the other had some obstruction that I cleared. Unfortunately I was probing down so anything that I did jar loose is now sitting in that well, which I can't access without pulling the soft plugs out of the passage from the bottom. I left that for another day as the plugs are already in pretty bad shape and I had a car show yesterday (Saturday). #4 - After re-assembling the carb I checked the adjustment of the accelerator pump. According to the TSM the bracket under the cover should be parallel with the top of the carb. It was already in a pretty good position so I left it. #5 - I adjusted the metering rods. I don't have my book in front of me and I don't want to give any misinformation but I adjusted them according to the TSM. After all that I put it back on the car, got everything back together and took it for a drive. No leak. Not counting my chickens yet, so drove her to and from the Car Show yesterday in 95 degree heat, no leak. So I'm not sure what part of any of this actually worked or a combination of it all helped. Still -- I'm not convinced it's fixed but I feel a lot better about it now. It will take a few more trips before I'm sure. :) (My car parked next to my uncle's Trans Am) Thanks everyone for your help! Tom
	1966 AMC Rambler American Rogue - 232 I6

American Frank Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/03/2012 Location: NE Penna Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote American Frank Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 9:53pm
	While percolation was enough of an issue back in the days when these cars were new, for carb manufacturers to incorporate anti -percolation devices, the problem nowadays is far, far worse when we carbureted-folk have no choice but use ethanol-blended fuels... These aren't an issue in modern fuel-injected vehicles, where the fuel is always under pressure.... but in a carbureted system, particularly one that is vented to the atmosphere, the lower vapor-pressure of ethanated fuels causes issues with vapor-lock ( evidenced as fuel starvation when running), percolation (flooding when parked hot), and carbs going dry when the vehicle stands for more than a day or two. One of the keys to succesful carb work is being able to blow-out passages with compressed air... a blow-gun with a rubber tip and sometimes a piece of vacuum hose can really blast passages out. A strand of wire from a hand wire-brush, or from copper electric wire can help probe-out tiny passages and jets... I would avoid a torch-tip cleaner. A heat shield is probably very helpful, especially if you have to run ethanol-blended gasoline. I am curious as to how the car performs with the 2-barrel WCD and what sort of mileage you get... I have a WCD on a 1960 Chrysler, and would be curious as to how it would perform on the Rambler six... Good luck, Frank McM
	American Frank 1961 American Custom Convertible 6107-2 P72 Frost White / Black Top R154 Ravine Medium Gray Metallic Dash Red & grey low-back "bucket" seats 1928 Ford 49A Special Coupe

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: los angeles Status: Offline Points: 591	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 1:12pm
	If you strip the insulation off a foot or so of #16 or so stranded wire, the individual strands of soft copper make for nice probes and cleaners for carb passages, since the copper is soft and flexible. As a test, to ID the problem, have you tried bleeding the fuel line to the carb? I realize it's not a fix, but if it prevents the percolate-flood then you'll know its related to vapor lock/overheat/pressure/etc and not in the carb per se. The carb float in good condition will stop liquid fuel, but i wonder how well it will stop pressurized vapor (gas) that re-condenses to a liquid within the carb, causing it to flood. (There's no fuel-return on these old systems of course.)
	1963 American 440 hardtop 195.6 OHV, modded T-96 Twin Stick, 3.78 axle

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7106	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/13/2012 at 9:45pm
	With the metal fuel line you get "vapor lock". It won't affect the car running at first. The metal line eventually gets hot enough that fuel will boil in the line, turning to vapor. Generally as long as the car is running the moving fuel cools the line enough that this doesn't happen (but it can!). Then you shut the car off (say to get gas) and find it won't start back up. The fuel pump won't pump vapor, just liquid. So you have to wait 30-45 minutes for everything to cool down enough that fuel will pump again. Insulating the line (or cutting it at the pump and using a rubber line instead of metal) prevents vapor lock. Rubber lines don't retain heat or get hot enough inside to boil gasoline. It's not dangerous, just happens at the most inconvenient times!
	Frank Swygert American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com

tloftus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/18/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 137	Post Options Post Reply Quote tloftus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jul/13/2012 at 1:27pm
	So car is out for the year -- put it away last year with the same issue continuing. I bought some 5/16" rubber fuel line and insulated the entire run from pump to carb hoping to keep the heat from causing issues but if the float / needle / seat are all operating correctly how can the heat cause any issue inside the line and affect the carb? Unless there is enough pressure to force the needle out? Anyway, I will continue updating this thread however, does anyone have the float level spec for the Carter WCD used in the 66 Americans? I'm not sure I can trust the papers that come with these carb kits. Thanks, Tom Edited by tloftus - Jul/13/2012 at 1:27pm
	1966 AMC Rambler American Rogue - 232 I6

Hemirambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Jan/18/2012 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hemirambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/03/2012 at 10:20pm
	The cooling mod makes perfect sense - I'll give it a whirl for sure. I also will try fabbing up a heat shield and see if that helps as well. Thanks all for your comments.

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7106	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Feb/03/2012 at 11:01am
	There isn't a heat riser on the 196 exhaust, no need since the exhaust comes out right under the carb. Heat can be a problem. You could make a heat shield for the carb. Just a piece of sheet metal cut to fit between the carb and intake. Put the metal between two carb base gaskets. The metal needs to be big enough to extend around the base of the carb. Bend up at VC, down on manifold side. Maybe a 8" square with carb hole in center. Check this site out too: http://wps.com/AMC/195.6OHV/Head-cooling/ That mod would help as it would keep the head just a little cooler.
	Frank Swygert American Motors Cars Magazine www.amc-mag.com

Hemirambler Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: Jan/18/2012 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hemirambler Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 10:29pm
	BillD, I used the carb cleaner - not so much to clean the small orifices, but as a check to see if they were clogged. I sprayed the carb cleaner into the side opposite the "anti percolator bushing" and watched the spray exit from those small orifices - making me think all is well there. The engine is a 196 OHV - the fuel line runs along the top of the valve cover & down to the pump - not near the exhaust at all. There is a tube off the exhaust manifold to the choke. Not the type that can clog with exhaust.

Thikstik Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/20/2008 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1078	Post Options Post Reply Quote Thikstik Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 11:57am
	Re heat riser-Good call Bill. Are you going to try what i had posted re-putting something in passages and see if it goes past valve? Could also put your mouth, a small tube and bubble to work here.
	75 gremlin x, jeep 4L headed 258,Clifford cam, intake,header. 390 holley. I want a 282 VAM motor! AC/PS/PDB. 72 AMX , 304 2bbl, 3speed, now disks...probably will sell, want an automatic /AC.