TKO vs T56

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Tremec rates TKO at 6200 rpm shift.  T5 at 6700 rpm.  T56 Magnum at 7500 rpm.  If you are >6500 rpm shift, stock TKO is out and stock T5 won't handle the power.

So, what are your options?
- custom gear set T5 (GForce, Astro, etc)
- modified shifting TKO (Libertys)
- T56 Magnum
- LGT700
- Richmond Super Street
- race transmission (if you can find a used one that fits your budget)

Suggest contact Libertys Gears and tell them what you're after.  They have stock and upgraded TKOs, T56 Magnum, and their own race transmissions for serious track use and also picked up some of Keisler's stuff when they went bankrupt. 

For the T56 bell, Ross McCombs at Quicktime said to order "RM8075-SPECIAL for LS T56 MAGNUM" as a special order item  since they hadn't released an official part number.  This was before Lakewood bought Quicktime and increased prices.  I bought it from Summit 'cause I was getting a bunch of other stuff at same time.  Just call their order line, select tech help and tell them what you're after.  Checked my receipt and at the time it was $666.01 or $200 over the cost of an RM-8075.  The Summit part number was "QTI-CUSTOM" and Summit part description "CUSTOM QTI PART".  

I ordered the custom bell instead of using a short bell + adapter plate + extended pilot bearing to get a slightly shorter overall length (a bit less cutting), lower install weight and was changing from an auto so wanted to go hydraulic clutch.  Plus I like my feet so wanted an SFI scatter shield anyway.  

The T56 Magnum 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/0.80/0.63 makes for nice ratio splits and very usable OD and less rpm drop to keep you in the power band for higher rpms.  I haven't driven it much yet, but used 5th more than 6th.  The TKO ratios were too much of a compromise to me, so paid the extra for T56 Magnum.  And if you have to pay extra to upgrade the TKO to make it shift better, makes sense just to go with the T56 Magnum?  Haven't heard anyone who opted for a T56 Magnum regret the decision and wish they got a TKO instead ... but ultimately depends on your budget.      

The Richmond SuperStreet 5 speed is rated 600ft.lbs. and to me has better ratios than the TKO (2.89, 1.85, 1.31, 1.00, 0.78).  It fits Javelin with minimal cutting (trim for shifter, bit of hammer work for shift rod clearance) and shifts better at higher rpms ... but more expensive.  The Chevy version mates to Lakewood 15411 or Quicktime RM-8075.  CarCraft ran one in the CC Rambler a few years back.

The Legend Gear LGT700, formerly marketed by Keisler as the SS700, has same 1st-4th as T56 with either 0.80 or 0.69 OD, >7000rpm shift and rated 700ft.lbs.  Smaller case for easier fit, multiple shifter locations, Chevy version bolts to RM-8075, but starts around $4000.  Best for people who don't want to cut the tunnel.

If racing and running slicks, a heavy flywheel and hard-grabbing clutch it will eventually destroy any transmission.  A lightened aluminum flywheel and soft-lock clutch is your best bet for good transmission life when racing regardless of what you run.  

Hope this helps, RD.

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
Red Devil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743	Post Options Post Reply Quote Red Devil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/01/2015 at 7:07pm
	Tremec rates TKO at 6200 rpm shift. T5 at 6700 rpm. T56 Magnum at 7500 rpm. If you are >6500 rpm shift, stock TKO is out and stock T5 won't handle the power. So, what are your options? - custom gear set T5 (GForce, Astro, etc) - modified shifting TKO (Libertys) - T56 Magnum - LGT700 - Richmond Super Street - race transmission (if you can find a used one that fits your budget) Suggest contact Libertys Gears and tell them what you're after. They have stock and upgraded TKOs, T56 Magnum, and their own race transmissions for serious track use and also picked up some of Keisler's stuff when they went bankrupt. For the T56 bell, Ross McCombs at Quicktime said to order "RM8075-SPECIAL for LS T56 MAGNUM" as a special order item since they hadn't released an official part number. This was before Lakewood bought Quicktime and increased prices. I bought it from Summit 'cause I was getting a bunch of other stuff at same time. Just call their order line, select tech help and tell them what you're after. Checked my receipt and at the time it was $666.01 or $200 over the cost of an RM-8075. The Summit part number was "QTI-CUSTOM" and Summit part description "CUSTOM QTI PART". I ordered the custom bell instead of using a short bell + adapter plate + extended pilot bearing to get a slightly shorter overall length (a bit less cutting), lower install weight and was changing from an auto so wanted to go hydraulic clutch. Plus I like my feet so wanted an SFI scatter shield anyway. The T56 Magnum 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.00/0.80/0.63 makes for nice ratio splits and very usable OD and less rpm drop to keep you in the power band for higher rpms. I haven't driven it much yet, but used 5th more than 6th. The TKO ratios were too much of a compromise to me, so paid the extra for T56 Magnum. And if you have to pay extra to upgrade the TKO to make it shift better, makes sense just to go with the T56 Magnum? Haven't heard anyone who opted for a T56 Magnum regret the decision and wish they got a TKO instead ... but ultimately depends on your budget. The Richmond SuperStreet 5 speed is rated 600ft.lbs. and to me has better ratios than the TKO (2.89, 1.85, 1.31, 1.00, 0.78). It fits Javelin with minimal cutting (trim for shifter, bit of hammer work for shift rod clearance) and shifts better at higher rpms ... but more expensive. The Chevy version mates to Lakewood 15411 or Quicktime RM-8075. CarCraft ran one in the CC Rambler a few years back. The Legend Gear LGT700, formerly marketed by Keisler as the SS700, has same 1st-4th as T56 with either 0.80 or 0.69 OD, >7000rpm shift and rated 700ft.lbs. Smaller case for easier fit, multiple shifter locations, Chevy version bolts to RM-8075, but starts around $4000. Best for people who don't want to cut the tunnel. If racing and running slicks, a heavy flywheel and hard-grabbing clutch it will eventually destroy any transmission. A lightened aluminum flywheel and soft-lock clutch is your best bet for good transmission life when racing regardless of what you run. Hope this helps, RD.

oldfrt613 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/14/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote oldfrt613 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/02/2015 at 10:40am
	Pretty well settling in the T56 - ran the tranys though a spread sheet to check RPM @ shift points to the next gear and like what I see with the T56 better than the TKO. Haven't gotten any feedback on TKO - so it looks like T56 is the way I'm going. I have an old Lakewood 8" deep bell housing I figured I could modify - now I struggling to get a machining drawing out of Tremec. I working with a tube chassis AMX so sheet metal fit is a non issue.

oldfrt613 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/14/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote oldfrt613 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/05/2015 at 7:34am
	Well, I heard from Tremec this morning. I asked for mounting dimensions for their transmission - here's what I got: "Hello , Sorry all engineering drawings are held proprietary to Tremec. Please contact Quick time bell housings for purchasing or tooling a new bell. Thanks Joel Conklin" They won't provide mounting dimensions - what a load of crap. I can't even size up a pilot bearing with their "installation" dimension on their literature.

Red Devil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743	Post Options Post Reply Quote Red Devil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/05/2015 at 8:02am
	Back when I was looking at fitting the T56 Magnum, I called Tremec Tech and they sent a drawing of the T56 Magnum bolt pattern ... so not sure why they won't send one now? I was going to get an adapter plate made to fit to an RM-8075, but ended up being simpler just to order the custom bell as it had the correct depth, rotation and cut-outs to clear the parts that protrude from the transmission mounting face (look at Quicktime bells for idea on clearance cut-outs). The early Lakewood deep scattershield would need to be shortened about 2” or use a long extended pilot bushing (IIRC, the Quicktime bell was 5.9" deep). A shorter bell would seem to be a better starting point? The cost-conscious option would be a short aluminum bell w/ an adapter plate and extended pilot bushing like in NeedafasterAMX’s Viper T56 post … but recommend a scatter shield for high rpm. Short aluminum bells are available new. Also note the T56 Magnum LS transmission bolt pattern is rotated 5 degrees toward the driver with the transmission mount horizontal. I don’t have Tremec’s original drawing handy, but this is what I had made up (dimensions in mm) so gives a rough idea. Not sure if the Lakewood bell has a big enough surface to machine for the T56 without adding a plate? Best to contact Tremec to confirm dimensions. The pilot bearing needs to be 15mm ID x AMC OD spec x length to ensure adequate engagement. Hope this helps, RD. Edit: American Powertrain and others sell adapter plates. This one shows the clearance cut-outs needed. I'm sure there are more economical options out there. http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8425899-maglink-adapter-kit-for-gm-magnum-to-gm-tko-muncie-t10-bell.html Edited by Red Devil - Jan/05/2015 at 8:40am

oldfrt613 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/14/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote oldfrt613 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/05/2015 at 9:08am
	THANKS! - that will get me started. I'd really rather avoid the whole adapter plate and extended pilot bearing. I will either modify the Lakewood I have, fab a housing or go a different tranny route. Like you indicated, I need to check and see if once I lop off the bell housing I have a big enough area to get the mounting done - it looks like it, but want to make sure before I do it. That's part one.

oldfrt613 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/14/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote oldfrt613 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 8:28am
	QuickTime Bell Housing for the T56 $1200 and 6-8 weeks ...... ouch. Talked to Richmond - tech guy said it was a crap shoot as far as shifting above 6000 rpm. He also said the Super Street 5spd with OD is their strongest box. Anyone runny these any real world input on shifting above that would be much appreciated. It looks like I could use the Mopar 18 spline input and trim the end an use my Lakewood 8" deep bell housing. Pilot diameter on that trany looks to be 2.5" long. Input length is 8.75" If I trim .75" off the input, it still leaves 1.25" long pilot bearing shaft (longer than any of the others) and give me the stock AMC T10 8" input. Did I overlook anything?

Red Devil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743	Post Options Post Reply Quote Red Devil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 12:15pm
	$1200 ... nasty ... I thought the $660 was pricey ... 'guess that's what happens when the Mr.Gasket Group buys them out Seems an adapter plate or other transmission option is way to go? Richmond shows 6.66" for the Chevy input shaft with a 1.06" tip. This is supposed to be a direct fit to Lakewood 15411 or RM8075 which are 6.3" deep. So if the Mopar version has an 8.57" shaft w/ 2.54" tip, may be workable with the deep bell ... input bearing retainer diameter may be another issue? However, Summit lists that transmission at $4370. http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rmg-7030518b For $5000 you could get a Libertys LSC5000 dog-ring gear box. Clutchless shifting, tons of ratios, custom input shaft, 850hp, lighter magnesium case. http://www.libertysgears.com/LSC5000.htm Or back to an upgraded TKO? Starting at $2699 at Libertys? Still needs a short bell. http://www.libertysgears.com/ttc2.htm Randy Guynn has a listing for a T56 Magnum kit using an adapter plate to fit a Chevy bell to an AMC. Not cheap either at $4279 for the kit? http://www.performanceamstyle.com/Cart/description.php?II=1262&sessid=e15055dc23e1e47e0b2063807bb7d3a5&divi=amc Not sure pricing on GForce T5? Rated 500ft.lbs./600hp. http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp Tough decision. Edited by Red Devil - Jan/12/2015 at 4:17pm

addic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: May/01/2008 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 370	Post Options Post Reply Quote addic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/12/2015 at 6:22pm
	I have a tko 600 in the 73 vette,I like it but ,2nd to 3rd would go into 5th on aggressive driving ,,and 4th to 5th is a big drop that I dont care for. T56 is what im going with next time ,stronger and shifts are nicer. Have a Richmond 6speed od in the AMX,just not rated to strong .
	73 401 Pierre Cardin X P1 73 401 Pierre Cardin X F3 70 X 390 4spd 69 X 401 6 spd 69 AMX 401 auto BSO 73 AMX 401 4speed pc 73 vette 427sb 5spd 73 vette convt.? 08 zx14

JavmanBBG Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Feb/13/2010 Location: Independence Mo Status: Offline Points: 148	Post Options Post Reply Quote JavmanBBG Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jan/13/2015 at 9:08pm
	Might try these guys http://www.browellbellhousing.com They built a custom bell for a Chevy input Jerico with a soft lock since the Lakewood and quick time would not clear the weight levers because of the taper. It was around $850 but included an inspection window that quick time charges an additional $250 for so...