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Timken Rear Main Seal 195.6 |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9060 |
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Posted: Mar/12/2018 at 3:31pm |
I need to replace the rear main seal on a 64 Classic with 195.6 six. I am planning to get the Best Gaskets rope seal but I just noticed that Summit racing now lists a Timken brand two piece rubber seal for this engine. That's a new one on me. Has anyone tried to buy/use this seal? Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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woah. that would be great. i cynically expect it to be a 199/232/258 seal mis-labelled.
i'm not sure the block is cut for a two-piece. if you need a photo of the affected area let me know, if you don't have one apart yet. Edited by tomj - Mar/12/2018 at 9:41pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9060 |
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Tom, do you remember if there is a little spike in the upper seal cavity to retain the rope seal?
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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There is a spike... I don't remember if it's in the upper cavity or the main cap though. I looked in a 64 TSM but no good photo. Text says crank must be removed to install upper seal packing though, so I suspect the spike is there. Would be easy enough to remove... with crank out.
I also suspect they have the 195.6 confused with the 199... |
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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in the morning i'll flip the 65 block over and look. i also have a reman 58 block indoors but i'd have to unstack it. i may be moved to do that.
the 65 had a rope seal, i removed it, there was no nib to sit in the hole. it was the rope type. it would be unsurprising and reasonable of AMC had made provision in the block/cap for two-piece, but continued to shop tried and true rope seals. Edited by tomj - Mar/13/2018 at 11:26pm |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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also, i had the unfortunate opportunity to have a rear seal installed in-car, in my new motor. the builder himself did it at a friend's shop. he was able to do so by removing the rear cap, loosening one other, and the crank sag was enough to snake the new seal in. it comes with a copper wire "puller", it grips the new seal and is pulled through; the pulling causes the "diameter" to shrink. the grip is held by the block squeezing it as it passes through and lets go when it exits. so far, so good.
the long-winded point was, a Best type seal can be replaced without removing the crank. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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OK joe here's some photos. there's no notch or hole or groove for seal retention. just a slot for the rope. i hadn't pulled the seal out, so i did so for the photo (and tucked it back in).
this is a 1965 195.6 OHV, possibly a replacement block. it has nearly zero cylinder wear and the crank journals are all 0-under. i think this is the first time this engine was apart since it was made, a first for me (previous 4, 5 disassembled engines had all been overbored at least once). BLOCK AND CAP, OLD SEAL IN PLACE... the visible notch in the cap is the oil slinger drain. it's not part of the seal, it drains the slinger cavity in the cap, it's forward of the rear seal about 1/2". BLOCK AND CAP, SEAL PULLED OUT. it's not super clear here but the groove for the seal is entirely featureless. Edited by tomj - Mar/14/2018 at 11:41am |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9060 |
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Okey Dokey. I have a bad rear main leak on my 64 Classic that I just got in trade. I can't stand an oil leak. I'm not a very good housekeeper but I can't stand an oil leak. I have ordered the Best Gasket kit from Galvin's and the Lisle Sneaky Pete tool, and I will try to replace the seal by just dropping the oil pan when things dry out up here on the Central Coast. Thanks again. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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Lucas660
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/16/2012 Location: Vic, Australia Status: Offline Points: 1344 |
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Haven't used it on this engine but I was going to suggest sneaky pete. Great tool to have in your kit.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Even with the Sneaky Pete, LOOSEN ALL MAIN CAPS. Just leave the bolts finger snug in #1, the others can be pretty loose. No more than a 1/16" gap in the rear. If too much gap the seal might come out of the groove and pinch between cap and crank, but it shouldn't. The seal needs to be lubricated -- some soak it in oil over night. Once you get the top half in leave about 1/4" on each end. Use a 1/4" BRASS punch and small hammer to pack the seal up in the ends. Then cut off even and install per instructions. Don't forget to use a bit of Permatex #2 on the little rubber pieces.
The lower one can be tough too! It needs to be rolled or pressed in with a piece of pipe/socket/etc. close to the journal diameter. I've had people recommend trimming the ends just slightly long so they push up into the upper ends, but that's hard to do. Taper the ends when you trim if you trim longer. I've NEVER been able to get a rope seal 100% drip free. Almost, but it will still "mark it's spot" when parked hot, not leak when cold and not sling oil everywhere while running. Didn't have the "Best" material back when I did my last one -- that was just coming to market. Hopefully it's a lot better than the older style -- is from what I've heard. |
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Frank Swygert
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