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T96J with torque tube.. What are my options? |
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First_Gear
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/18/2010 Location: Mukilteo WA Status: Offline Points: 644 |
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Posted: Oct/18/2017 at 8:10pm |
So I recently discovered that I have a T96J trans in my 1966 rambler classic behind the 232. I took it apart and of course the input and main shaft has been ruined. I cannot find parts and even if I could I have read everywhere how bad this transmission is. I should also mention that it has an overdrive unit and my 66 is a torque tube.
So my options are replacement but the torque tube is throwing me for a loop. I am thinking I may try to find a T85 but even if I can find one it will have the wrong bell housing bolt pattern. Are there any other options? -Tom |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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At the moment the easiest thing I can think of is to put in a Borg Warner T35 automatic. I did that probably more than 30 years ago including with the column and wider pedal.
There is supposedly an adapter plate available for a 5 speed conversion but as you know there is still the torque tube problem. You've probably read through the many pages about people's efforts to change out the rear end. Modern driveline rings a bell for the adapter plate??? Edited by vinny - Oct/18/2017 at 9:32pm |
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First_Gear
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/18/2010 Location: Mukilteo WA Status: Offline Points: 644 |
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I considered this but I want to keep a manual gearbox with OD. I definitely don't want to go through the hassle of ditching the torque tube. I have done further research and it looks like a T-86, T-90 or T-14 were used with the 232.
http://www.matadorcoupe.com/trannyspecs.htm The T-14 is out. I can't even find a picture or any mention of one with OD. I cannot find an OD T-90 without a jeep transfer case on it so that is out as I need the long OD output shaft.. I see T-86's and they look possible however I have read they are also kind of a weak transmission and also rare. Only made for two years. My only other option is to get a T96 with the regular parts and rebuild that but I want reliability. I will get pictures but I may be able to get my T96J to work with some creativity and a mill+ lathe if I have to. It has obviously had some parts custom machined for it in the past.. The other issue are the synchro's someone installed are too thin.. The T96J synchros are thicker than the standard T96 ones are and unavailable. I will have to make a spacer ring for this to work..
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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The T-86 isn't weak, especially not compared to a T-96! IF you change to a bigger trans you will have to change the torque tube and axle out too. The larger trannys used an AMC 20 axle and tube. Hmmm... 66 may have the AMC 20 instead of 15 -- it should. Is there an oil plug in the rear axle cover? If so it's an AMC 15, if not an AMC 20.
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I can't remember what I changed first, to the automatic or to the AMC 20 from the 15 but they all seemed to interchange without issue. I don't know about how the manual box behind the 327 interchanges except that it was a very strong transmission.
The AMC 20 under my 64 car now came out of a 66 Ambassador with a 232. Edited by vinny - Oct/19/2017 at 9:39am |
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First_Gear
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/18/2010 Location: Mukilteo WA Status: Offline Points: 644 |
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It is an AMC 20, has the rear cover that looks like a WWII helmet. I also read that the T86 has a case that is an inch longer.. This means I have to move the engine forward an inch by modifying the mounting bracket. I don't think I would want to shift the rear axle back an inch.. Or does it matter? It looks like my R10 O-drive unit (with torque tube adapter) will fit onto a T86 as the output shafts are the same supposedly.
Last problem the T86 input shaft is longer than my T96. I guess AMC made a special one with a shorter shaft. I think I could simply turn this down on a lathe to the right length. I would lose the case hardened steel end but I could install a hardened bushing over it or just leave it since its in a bronze pilot bushing. I saw an old ford BW T86 on cl.. Any reason I'm not thinking of why this wouldn't work?
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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You are probably covering new ground here.
I think I might have read that the bolt spacing to the bell housing is different for the larger transmission and that possibly the transmission bolt holes are outside the bell housing so a plate would be required. Not sure on that though. I also don't know if the larger transmission rear section as found behind the 327 will fit the T/T of the six cylinder. I know it had a double U-joint rather than the single of the six cylinder. Maybe the output shaft sizes are different? I don't know what clutch you have but the one behind the 196 in a 64 is tiny. There was recently some discussion on here about upgrading to a different type, maybe Ford? |
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First_Gear
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/18/2010 Location: Mukilteo WA Status: Offline Points: 644 |
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From what I have read I should be able to take the shorter torque tube OD off of the T96 and mate it to the T86 in place of the long OD so from the transmission rearward it would be all the stock setup. I have a clutch I was planning to use that is 10" that I got on ebay that is beefier than the stock setup. I also have dispatched the terrible self adjusting cable setup in favor of a willwood hydraulic setup. I think the clutch shafts are the same except the T86 shaft is longer.. If I can figure this out I will take some pictures to benefit someone else who may be in the same boat. There is a T86 OD on cl nearby I'm going to ask for some measurements and see if this is a viable option.
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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http://theamcforum.com/forum/64-rambler-ambassador-trans-options_topic25372_page1.html
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2006/12/Warner-T-85-T-89-Three-Speed-Transmissions/1382444.html Edited by vinny - Oct/20/2017 at 12:25pm |
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amcenthusiast
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2012 Location: SW Atlanta GA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Again, look at how long it lasted and in that regard, maybe they're not so bad after all?
The sloppy input shaft indicates a bad pilot bearing also & bad pilot bearing indicates overheated clutch/loss of pilot bushing lubricity = one thing leads to another... IMO, it's probably not the transmission's fault -the pilot bushing failure, caused by worn out slipping overheating clutch may have brought on the whole issue. -an overheating slipping clutch can be brought on by a leaky rear main seal leaking oil into the clutch housing... (can't fix the problem until the source of the problem is identified... but it seems everything might be needing service -including the rear main seal) IMO the T96 is hated for it's non-synchromesh first gear but with overdrive they were commonly used as a semi-manual automatic; leave it in second and lift gas pedal to shift into 2nd+OD ...which may be part of why the clutch wore out sooner and later turned into an overheating clutch issue (the OD cars came with approx. 3.73 to 1 axle ratio which would arguably be too much rpm on the freeway for non OD trans car... this lent itself to second gear starts also, where first gear would considered a nuisance for being too low) ...does the car have a trailer hitch? I agree with Vinny the inline six aluminum case automatic should be basically a 'bolt in' swap but if I were you I'd just go on and fix it to keep the 'old school' goodies ...if you find automatic swap attractive, get the car's steering column or gear shift with it -to get the proper gear shift park neutral safety switch reverse lights etc The 'old school' junkyard I go to has a '67 Rebel station wagon with 232 T96 OD unit that might make a nice 'parts transmission' for you? Johns Auto Salvage Seguin Tx on web they pack and ship Also there's CTC Auto Ranch Denton Tx on web; they may have a torque tube unit I have a spare T96 OD open driveshaft unit would only sell if someone made an offer I could not refuse T. Jennings on AMC Forum most likely knows where you might find parts ...I think the difference between a T-85 and T-89 is that the 85 has non-synchro first? -anyway, hope it helps you somehow feel free to PM me with other questions -D.T. |
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