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T-10 Swap & Rear Gearing

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Moffman View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 2:58pm
Car info: '71 Javelin, mild built '73 360 (comp 280h, eddy Airgap RPM, 9:1 comp)  mated up to a broken 727 w/ a 2500 stall.

Found a T-10 set up, believed to be from a '69 Javelin for sale on CL this weekend. After a 2 hour drive it was in my trunk. Guy thought it was a wide 2.43 P-code but when I got there and checked by spinning it over, it was a close ratio 2.23. I ended up buying it anyway due to the flywheel, clutch, bellhousing, z bar, linkage, and pedals being included.

First off, what do I need to make this work on my '71? I know a later flywheel is needed, will the pedals work without major modification? Pilot bushing size in a later step up crank? Anything else I should be aware of?

Second, the car is already a dog right now due to the rear end. It has either 2.87's or 3.15's, can't remember right now. Does anyone have a similar set up and can recommend a good ratio? Car is just going to be a fun street car with mild strip/track time.

Thanks
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401MATCOUPE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 5:04pm
Just FYI, I am not saying you can't get things to work, but the clutch pedal, z bar, and all linkage but throw out for is different from 1969 to 1970 up.......flywheels are engine specific too, besides flat flange vs. step flange, but a late step flange flywheel is easy available new, pre balanced....bell housing will interchange no problem, if trans 69 then you need to use a 69 throw out bearing.....
Ross K. Peterson
68X,GoPac,343,AT,52A(1stCar)
68X,GoPac,390,4sp,52A
69X,GoPac,390,4sp,64A
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,87A,8
70X,GoPac,390,4sp,BBO,8
70 Jav SST,390,AT,BSO
74MatX,401,AT,Prototype
74MatX,401,AT
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Moffman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 5:44pm
I was afraid of that, guess I'll have to mock it up and see if I can make it work. Was planning on picking up a new '72+ 360 flywheel and having it matched to my old flex plate. I see an Omix ada makes a new replacement, might pick that up. Thanks Ross.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 7:57pm
I am by no means an expert here, but I have a friend who has several different Amc cars most are manual and his feeling is that all 4 speed t10's are fun to drive compared to the horsepower sucking 727 automatics. He has converted several automatic cars to t10 manuals and isn't even sure what version of t10 is in any of the cars. From the information I've read the early 2.64 was the most forgiving for around town driving and a 3.15 rear end gives a nice cruising rpm at 70. The later 2.23 t10 was typically used with the larger 390 and 401 that have more torque for take off. You likely will need to feather the clutch to get rolling with out a lot of throttle. some will use a higher rear end gear to achieve quicker launch but then you sacrifice the higher rpm's while cruising. There is a chart on the forum somewhere that takes all the variables into account, trans gear ratio, rear end gears, tire size and desired highway rpm. No matter what if you like to shift you will enjoy the increase in seat of pants power difference compared to an automatic transmission. Forum member JavJav is producing many of the shifter linkage and parts needed to do the swap based on original production parts. You may want to buy a TSM for your year car, or consult an Amc parts manual to see what parts are year specific for your car. Good luck with the swap, I hope to do the same to my 67 Rogue V8 if I can find the right Z bar and linkage. 
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jpnjim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 8:34pm
I've had my 71 Javelin since 1990,
it's always had a 360/T-10 (2.23 1st) and 3.91's.

Two different 360's, both stock-low compression ratio, Torker intakes & headers.
One had an old school wide lobe center 280 cam, the other was stock.

My honest opinion,
even with 3.91's it didn't pull hard off the line.

Once it got past the soggy bottom it pulled like a bear until it ran out of RPM (6000 in 4th was 120 w/255-60-15's).
The other negative for 3.91's was highway use.
60mph = 3000 rpm
80mph = 4000 rpm

Yeah passing was no problem, but it long highway trips the gas gauge moves as much as the speedometer. 

It was my daily driver way back when,
 so as a fun toy it's not so bad unless you have far to drive.

Depending on tire size, if I was swapping in a 2.23 T-10 I'd go either 3.54's or 3.73's,
and not have high expectations of it pulling hard in 1st gear.

FWIW,
I'm setting the car up now with a 2.64 T-10 & a 3.15 infront of a 401.
I also went with a shorter tire so it's only a little taller than the 2.23/3.91 combo.
Hopefully the bigger/better built engine makes 1st gear pull the way I want it to.
71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
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Airdrie AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdrie AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/16/2018 at 10:29pm
Probably the easiest option given all the parts needed specifically for a 71-74 javelin swap is put up a post in the wanted section. I did the auto to manual swap in my 72 max and pulled it all out of a donor car.
The first combo after I did the swap was with a 2:23 trans and a 3.15 rear gear, it was brutal even with a built 401. slow of the line and first gear was way too long. I re-geared to a 3:73 and it was much better but still not happy. Currently it has the 3:73 rear gear and a 2:64 wide ratio trains and while I'm not a huge fan of the gear spread, it pulls hard of the line now with a relatively small 27" tire, and the engine spins up quickly.
72 amx javelin 401 4spd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2018 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Airdrie AMX Airdrie AMX wrote:


The first combo after I did the swap was with a 2:23 trans and a 3.15 rear gear, it was brutal even with a built 401. slow of the line and first gear was way too long. I re-geared to a 3:73 and it was much better but still not happy.

 Currently it has the 3:73 rear gear and a 2:64 wide ratio trains and while I'm not a huge fan of the gear spread, it pulls hard of the line now with a relatively small 27" tire, and the engine spins up quickly.

^so your biggest issue is 4th gear RPM's with 3.73's & 27" tires?

What's the biggest issue with the 2.64's  gear spread?
1 to 2 spread too close & 2 to 3 too far?

Thanks!
71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
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Airdrie AMX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdrie AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2018 at 1:32pm
Yea 2nd and 3rd gear are way too close, by the time I hit 2nd I'm reaching for 3rd and then there's a big rpm drop to 4th. I don't mind the 373's on the highway I can maintain 70 mph without the temp creeping up. Don't get me wrong I'd love another gear just not worth the cost for me right now. I
72 amx javelin 401 4spd
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Moffman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Moffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2018 at 1:43pm
So basically, from what I gathered from this thread I should sell the T-10 and get a 2.95 T5? lol
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scott View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2018 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Moffman Moffman wrote:

So basically, from what I gathered from this thread I should sell the T-10 and get a 2.95 T5? lol


Now that sounds like a plan. I swapped a T5Z into my 70 Rebel, best modification I have ever made to a car. I'll never mess with another 4 speed, even if I get it for free.
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