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T-10 First Gear Ratio

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6PakBee View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr/11/2009 at 7:45am
Is there any way to take the AMC T-10 transmission with the 2.23 first gear ratio and drop it to something lower by mixing and matching GM/Ford/Mopar parts?  I'm not shooting for a specific first gear number but something lower than the 2.23.
Roger Gazur
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1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote superk401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/11/2009 at 11:11pm
have to change the main shaft
superk401
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:02am
Originally posted by superk401 superk401 wrote:

have to change the main shaft


Okay, to what?  I'm assuming you have to keep the AMC input shaft.  Is there a website that has choices?  Really struggling here.


Edited by 6PakBee - Apr/12/2009 at 8:03am
Roger Gazur
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1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 10:10am

It would probably be easiest to find the 2.64 first gear AMC T10. They are a little hard to find, but they are out there with a little searching. That way you're not buying parts to mix & match that supposedly will work, but won't fit once you buy them. The 2.64 AMC T10 will most likely end up being cheaper in the long run.

Best of all is a T5 swap, with the 2.95 first gear & overdrive!! If you ever get to the Pittsburgh area, I'll let you take my T5 equipped Rebel for a drive. You'll be a convert.   Scott 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 7:25am
Scott, thanks for the reply and the offer.  I get to Pittsburgh every other year or so.  Next time I'm in town, I'll PM you and maybe we can set something up.
Roger Gazur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ram Air Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/17/2009 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by 6PakBee 6PakBee wrote:

Is there any way to take the AMC T-10 transmission with the 2.23 first gear ratio and drop it to something lower by mixing and matching GM/Ford/Mopar parts?  I'm not shooting for a specific first gear number but something lower than the 2.23.
 
Roger,
 
I've heard that since this is a T-10 transmission , Liberty Gears can provide the internals necessary,to make other first gear ratios:        http://www.libertysgears.com/
 
 
Now I have not checked this option out myself,but if you do,would you post your finding here?
 
Finding a 2.43 or 2.64 T-10 box,can sometimes be hard,and then it's used stuff anyhow.
No telling what you are going to get.
 
Also,I've seen information that says that you can tell the different T-10 Transmission 1st gear ratios,from the rings on the input shaft.Now I don't remember off the top of my head which ratios corresponded with how many rings,but as I do remember it,the information that I had,was incorrect for what I was finding with the transmissions 1st gear ratio.Anyone got the real skinny on this info.?
 
Rich C.
 
 


Edited by Ram Air Rick - Apr/17/2009 at 10:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 2:19am
Lifted from other threads:
 
There is a very easy way to find out what internal gears you have
(assuming the trannie is out of the car)....
On the input shaft, with the 10 splines....
you will notice some faintish grooves that run "around" the splines...
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves
2.64 gears have 3 grooves
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove
2.64 gears have one groove
 
Thus in that instance of the Super T-10 or aluminum cased T-10 you have to turn the input shaft (with the trannie in first gear) and count how many times the input turns to turn the output around once. Use a marker and paint a input groove and the input guide and tape the output shaft and mark it.
 
 
S&K Speed in New York can supply parts to convert to a 2:64 ratio, the way I did mine was to find an AMC 20 tooth input shaft, then use Chevy gears for the rest, you do have to have a spacer made to fit the Chevy 3rd gear, the AMC gear has a flat back and the Chevy Super T-10 is recessed to allow for a thicker flange on the main shaft. It worked great and is the ticket, your car will be totally different than the close ratio tranny,
Anyway, contact S&K, the owner is the guy to talk to and he has the experience from two S/S AMX's. They can supply any or all parts needed, you can even get a main drive shaft that fits the AMC tranny that has the thick flange which eliminates the need for the spacer. They also have nickle gears, including clusters. The difficult part may be the long 20 tooth input shaft, but when I did mine (3 years ago) he said they were on the verge of being made.
If it were me, I would disasemble both transmissions, clean thoroughly, take best parts from both, get small parts rebuild kit (includes bearings, gaskets and so on), the gears needed for the ratio conversion and do it yourself. You won't need a dummy shaft, just use wheel bearing grease to hold the bearings in place.
He said their Super Stock AMX's went low 10's with a T-10 like mine, but to go faster they did convert to nickle gears.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ram Air Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 11:37am
[QUOTE=PHAT69AMX]
Lifted from other threads:
 
There is a very easy way to find out what internal gears you have
(assuming the trannie is out of the car)....
On the input shaft, with the 10 splines....
you will notice some faintish grooves that run "around" the splines...
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves
2.64 gears have 3 grooves
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove
2.64 gears have one groove
 
Thus in that instance of the Super T-10 or aluminum cased T-10 you have to turn the input shaft (with the trannie in first gear) and count how many times the input turns to turn the output around once. Use a marker and paint a input groove and the input guide and tape the output shaft and mark it.
 
 
 
Phat,
 
Thanks for the reply.The information that you provided,is the info. that I cannot seem to reconcile.I've seen it before ,and I tried to get it to workout with other AMC T-10 transmissions,and it just didn't seem to work out.
 
That said,I went into my basement,and just checked a T-10 that I had laying around from a 1968 AMX. It has 4 grooves on the input shaft .  2.43 box then right? Well I marked the input shaft,and snout for reference,and then the output shaft and shaft housing also. I rotated the input shaft till the output shaft made one complete revolution.
 
Now the input shaft is nice in the it has 10 splines each equaling 1 tenth of a revolution .Right?
 
It (input shaft) rotated 2 turns, 2 and a half splines past the start point,for that one revolution of the output shaft. Am I doing something wrong? Seems to me that 2 turns plus the 2 and a half splines .25 would be 2.25 or 2.23 ,and would indicate that this four spline box is a 2.23 unit?
 
I'm just not sure if I am missing something,but that is why I'm apprehensive about the accepted information?
 
Am I doing the wrong ?
 
Thanks for the help.
 
Rich C.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/18/2009 at 12:21pm
Have read that number of grooves in shaft is not always a reliable way to tell ratio.
The 2.23 from counting roatations and splines sounds right.
Isn't there also a "letter code" in the case casting that indicates ratio ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ram Air Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/19/2009 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by PHAT69AMX PHAT69AMX wrote:

Have read that number of grooves in shaft is not always a reliable way to tell ratio.
The 2.23 from counting roatations and splines sounds right.
Isn't there also a "letter code" in the case casting that indicates ratio ?
 
PHAT,
 
I went and looked both for some information that I had (documents),and at the transmission in question.
 
The docs coincide with what you posted earlier and in addtion to this my docs had the letter codes posted with each ratio.I added that portion to the text that you supplied below:
 
2:23 grears have 5 such grooves    "V"
2.43 gears have 4 such grooves      "P"
2.64 gears have 3 grooves              "T"
 
If your case is aluminum (Super T-10), Then...
 
2.43 gears have one groove     "S"
2.64 gears have one groove     "W"
 
Now with the above letter codes added ,here's where the plot thickens. And it can never be something simple for me ?Dead
 
Cast into the main body housing is:     T10P-1B
                                                             W.G. DIV.
                                                             M.18.67     Q2
 
Tag attached under the trans bolt that mates the tailshaft hsg. to the main body hsg. is:
 
                                                             193964
                                                             S1-T10V
 
Now as you can see,if you went off of the main body casting numbers T10P it would indicate that it was a 2.43 box which is not supported by what I've found (2.23)
 
If you go off the stamped tag T10V it would indicate the 2.23 box which is supported by what I've found with this box.
 
As said before ,the four rings indicates the 2.43 box (employing commonly accepted postings) ,but we know that's not the case with this box.
 
My conclusions so far :
-The number of grooves on the input shaft doesn't really tell you anything,relative,to first gear ratio.
-Since the letter number combo cast into the case is not supporting what I've found this box to be ,it likely that it does not correspond to the first gear ratio either,and since the cases are interchangeable between ratios,it's unlikely they would change the casting letter code to denote this.
- The tag which is stamped with S1-T10V seems to be the only legit piece of the puzzle supported by what I have found T10V=2.23 first gear.This does make sense in that it is easy to ID a trans type with this stamped tags information,as it is put together,and allows the flexability of using the same cast case for many transmission first gear ratios without having to change the cast letter code.
 
Now, is it possble that the trans was rebuilt at one point,and the parts were flipflopped from one trans to another? Sure it's possible,but the trans that I've been using as an example came out of a 19k mile California Black plate AMX,that basically was a fairly pampered car. I'm the third owner,and I really don't think things were changed around.Besides the date code on the trans is from 1967 (M.18.67) and I've got docs that tell me this was a very early AMX for 68.
 
Can anyone fill me in on the M in M.18.67 ? It looks to me that the 18 is the day of the month,and 67 should be the year 1967,but M fort the month ? March ,May? M would exceed the number of months in the calender by one month.Unless they skipped A?
 
Rich C.
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