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swapping from 37 amp to 55 amp, direct swap? |
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4837 |
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For anybody upgrading, be sure to check the rating of the ammeter. If it's not rated for the amperage of the alternator you're putting on, bypass it or it can melt it and possibly cause a fire. I recently seen pictures of a Javelin that had a dash fire and its not pretty.
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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dogbone, I think the original intent was to stay with Motorola. Rockauto might list a Delco 10si but it will unlikely be a bolt on without changes, including to the regulator. IMO it is more obsolete than the Motorola, and for sure doesn't charge much at idle. If you are changing out completely then go with something much newer.
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S Curry
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/16/2012 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 598 |
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I guess I'm curious as to how much running the AC will draw for current. I'll get out my Fluke with a clamp and find out. I would believe 2 amps on the comp. clutch, but I'm thinking the fan at high speed is more than 2 amps. I'll find out.
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SC
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304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
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Back to Billd's explanation of why a higher amp alternator is required for A/C. Back when I had my 73 with A/C. I have lived in San Jose, CA. The stop and go traffic and heat required A/C. Thankfully, it was not like Georgia, with high humidity and heat up into the 80s at midnight, in late April. Reasons being lights, stereo, A/C, and stop and go traffic... you guessed it. The alternator would probably give up the ghost into to anything but a high amperage version.
Now back to what I was about to explain further. I had requested a replacement high current alternator and probably got a 37 amp. Thus after a year, again needed another alternator. Again I requested a high current alternator as I told them I had A/C. Again the same old same old happens after a year. This time I never got around to find out if it was a high current alternator or not, as I made a change out of engine, and pulled my A/C compressor. So without A/C how is one to tell any better? Well for that experience for me, the question is mute. Just some info about why high current does not mean you are going to use more current in general. It is to have more current capability at idle and below 2000 RPM. Most alternators don't produce enough current below 2000 RPM for all the accessories, unless over driven like police, and heavy duty options. |
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71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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OK, sorry I missed this earlier - I mean I sort of saw it but was on a tablet in my shop and not paying close attention. We don't have sound effects, so just imagine the sounds of a buzzer instead of a happy sounding winning bell. Again I used to do this - for a living and went through factory continuing education. I knew it was much more than 2 amps but the details escaped me this morning. Looking in the Sanden manuals, keep in mind this is Sanden, smaller, newer, lighter - their spec is TWICE your number. Sanden says 3.6 - 4.2 and 4.2 is more than double and is closer to 5 than 2 So if you are running a 35 amp and add AC, you need a 40 if you follow very basic logic and what the factory did. Of course the Motorcraft/Ford type systems pulled a bit more and the heavy-duty blower motors on high in a hot Iowa day (or an AZ day?) will pull a fair amount because the heat doesn't help. I'm sure you have seen the MELTED connectors and the burned rusted terminals on the blower resistor. That means it's been hot a lot. Blower motors for AC cars were also often a more heavy-duty motor with the cooling tube lacking on some non-AC cars......... that varied with year, model, etc. but when you add it up....... I also restore those and have a few on the shelves and there are some differences with some of them. So the older AC will draw a good 4 amp just for the clutch............ run that blower on high on a 100 degree day (call it the AMC "desert only" setting - frankly I preferred the "dessert only" setting but that's another topic) |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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The Sanden specs are 3.6 - 4.2 and that's SANDEN. Some others draw more. I've done some repair on cars where the switches and other parts were damaged by the draw. Two is very under-estimating it. If you watch a volt meter when the AC kicks in you can see a response that indicates it's more than a paltry two amps. The resistance of the coil on SOME units is two to five ohms - that's not offering a lot of resistance. 304dude - it's the problem with those bloody reman units. I have had so many apart over the years I swear I will never ever ever buy a reman alternator (or carburetor etc. ) Those reman are will-fit, like I said. I've seen them built and I have gone through hundreds of alternators over the years and have too many to count in my shop (unless I get really bored some night) Heck, I'm doing a dozen roughly (ugh, I'd have to look at the list again) just for Ross .............. I've seen a few alternators, and many many reman, and some people "swear" came from AMC and I know they may have been removed from an AMC but AMC never put them there originally.... I can tell by looking what's right, wrong, size and so on. In some cases I can tell you the year and if it came from a six of a V8 by just looking even with no tag. Yes I've done and do that many. Reman are parts from many pulled to put something together. They don't always match year or output and the frames aren't always even correct. I don't even like getting REMAN units as cores - and I've seen some supposedly rebuilt by others that make me shake my head and worry for the owner of the car. When you buy from a parts store you are tossing dice on reman Yeah, they guarantee things but I guess that's up to the car owner as to what they want to do........ change what they are given or get the correct item, as far as remanufactured alternators. Remember, these employees don't always have any training, either. Some are darned good, others wouldn't recognize an alternator if it was sitting in front of them with a sign on it. And higher amp - they go by the BOOK. If the book says YOUR car should have xyz that is what you get. They can't think outside of the book (HAHAHA) ;-) |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Your fluke should handle that many amps, or may, without a clamp. I'd put it inline. My car is at the body shop or I'd check the Eagle. I guess I could trigger the Javelin's compressor and do a check on it and compare to my books. And yeah, the comment from MOPAR_GUY about AMMETER - GOOD CATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I have to agree with ya....... 10si isn't worth the swap, IMO. Not as good at idle, takes more power, etc. Little gain other than no external regulator on the fender. Motorola made alternators for MANY makes and models, not just AMC. In fact I have a brand new Motorola on my shelf for Toyota, and I've worked on them for VW, and some higher-end European cars. AMC did use Delco on later models - Spirit, Eagle, etc. - it was the 10si and I have parts on hand for them, a few cores, as well. I have a NOS Bosch for AMC as well sitting somewhere. |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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You have something else going on. and no, The Delco isn't a fit for your car without mods. A large alternator will never put out that much if it's not called for........... it's just extra capacity, doesn't mean it's putting that much out. |
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dogbone
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/13/2008 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 702 |
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I took it out tonight just to see how the new A/C was going to perform with air running through the condenser. Good news is it blows 45 degree air and seems to work great. Bad news the original alternator is not going to keep up. Was running in a worst case scenario, lights on hi beam, blower on full blast, A/C on and the outside temp about 80. Volt meter reading about 11 volts and maybe on the low side of that.
Was going to take a trip in it this weekend, but probably not a good idea. Shouldn't the alternator light glow a little with readings like this?
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64 Cross Country Wagon 770, 79 VW Scirocco, 70 Porsche 914-6, 82 Subaru Brat, 1991 Autozam
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