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Swapping a 232 for a 199 |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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My 64 had rear end gears close to 4.10:1 It could lay dual marks across a four lane highway - but it topped out at about 80 out of OD. |
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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What cam and carb would one suggest to beef up my little 199? And any other tricks that may help me get some more power. Not trying to go crazy but some more juice would be nice.
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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Doesn't the ordinary 2bbl intake from a 258 bolt up? If that's the case then there's options with the Offenhauser and Clifford 4bbl intakes but I wouldn't bolt up either one unless you are trying to push a LOT of power through this thing with something like an M62 or some centrifugal charger. The 199 really only has one fault and that's too much potential.
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19592 |
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Yes, the 2V intake from a 81 or later 258 with one of the smaller Autolite 2100 carbs would be a good combo, with an Isky 256 Supercam or maybe even a 262 (or the 256/262 split lobe). Wouldn't go any bigger, I'd personally either use the 256 or 256/262, nothing bigger for a street car. The 256 Supercam is great, but I do like a split lobe where duration is a bit higher on exhaust. Wish I'd used that in my car! The 1.08 and 1.14 2100 are usually recommended for the 258 (287/300 cfm), the smallest is a 0.98, but the 1.01 or 1.02 (240/245 cfm) would work best. I don't think a 1.08 would be too big, but there would be a bit better throttle response with one of the smaller ones. 1.02 is 26mm, so a Weber 32/36 would be good (it has venturies of 26mm/27mm). In fact, I'd go with the Weber since it's a two stage carb -- runs off the smaller all the time, the second kicks-in later. I think it's a mechanical secondary, not vacuum. You could use the Offy Dual Port intake, but I don't think you'd use the secondaries very much, or that they would pull open very far with a Holley 390. I wouldn't use the big Clifford open plenum intake for anything but all-out racing. Stick with the AMC 81+ 258 aluminum intake.
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19592 |
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DF -- with the T-5 3.08 wouldn't be so bad. Normally you'd use four gears, just use 5th when doing 70+ on interstate... and easy to drop to 4th when pulling a big hill.
Billd -- my 61 American with L-head and OD used a 4.11 gear, 63 American (OHV) had a 3.78 with 4.11 optional. I had the 3.78 gear with one and it was good. I'd think 4.11 is a bit low for the OHV engine, but the L-head can use the extra grunt... |
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Frank Swygert
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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Thanks Farna. Very helpful info.
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7519 |
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i wouldn't over-carb it... rev it. within reason of course. don't be afraid to highway-cruise at 2800 - 3000 rpm. power is torque * rpm. you got a small bore, but also a small stroke. it's no powerhouse but with oiling and cooling in good shape it will be fine. i ran the 232 in my 63 classic wagon like that for 21 years (3.31 axle and m35 auto). it got great mileage (18 mpg average) 2500, 2600 rpm, and dropped off to 16, 17 cruising at 2800 (70 mph).
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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The 199 is pretty far from square when compared to the 232, 258 and even
my massive 285 stroked monster. It's what, 80%? So you end up with the
same power behavior as my stroker but require 25% more RPM to achieve
it. Your redline goes higher the less the pistons need to travel so unlike everything I've ever driven, this would be fine. With 2.72 gears you're looking at overcoming the same obstacles I
tried so hard to eliminate from my Eagle loaded with the tired leaking 258 and 3spd
crapflite. I don't know what size tires
are on the 69 but my wagon has 27" tires that only feel ridiculous on
pavement except when cruising, where this car is at 95% of the time. It would sit ~2600ish at
70MPH which has to be wrong but it would check in at 16-18MPG average. With
the wide ratio T-5, I had to build a stroker just to overcome the higher
HP/TQ demands at a significantly lower ~1800ish cruise. I'm looking at figures like 111HP/310LB-FT in 5th at 70MPH, which should be pretty close to the minimum required power to maintain speed but I wanted the OD specifically for cruising, so if I miss that mark, it's time to change the transmission or axle gears. Guess which one is easier and which one costs $$$$?
You're most likely going to run into odd issues like inappropriate cooling at cruise and feeling like the engine is winding out when it's barely pushing half its potential power. Get an electric fan with a two stage controller and keep an eye on your oil/temp gauges. Everything else should be fine.
It should be fine with my 2.72 gears but the torque curve makes me uneasy about 5th gear. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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Arash
AMC Fan Joined: Jan/21/2018 Location: Iran Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hello dear friends Due to the problems of jeep spare parts in Iran Please watch the link below http://www.telewebion.com/episode/1676182/ |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7519 |
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and i thought we had problems finding parts!! i had an iranian student, that told me about mountain road and camping trips her and her friends would take. the deserts there sound amazing, the mountainous one seem similar to the SouthWestern US Mojave Desert (my favorite part of the US). haha iranian car people are crazy! (the good kind of crazy). that looks like a great time. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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