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Swapping a 232 for a 199 |
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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Posted: Jan/16/2018 at 9:21am |
In September I bought a 68 American 220 with a 199 MT on the tree from the original owner. Pretty clean, virtually all original. The 199 is original and runs great. Just needs new clutch which I am working on.
Late last year I bought a 69 Rambler 440 parts car with a 232 with MT overdrive T96J. The 232 ran from previous owner but has been sitting in the car as I part the rest of the vehicle. The T96J tranny has been removed and sold. Question for advice: Is it worthwhile to rebuild the 69's 232 and replace the 68's 199 with it? Would the 68 manual transmission and bell housing mate up to the 69's 232? What are the advantages of a 232 versus a 199 besides the obvious CI difference? I just finished completing the 360/904 combo in my other car, a 69 220 and it is fun and fast. But my goal with the 68 is just to have fun in a virtually original car (I like the 3 on the tree). It has a few minor dings and needs paint but I don't care about that with the 68. Who knows, I may drive it for a period and then sell it later to someone who wants to restore it. But I have heard so many good things about the 232 that I thought I may consider the rebuild and swap. Any advice or comments about my thoughts? Pros and cons about 199 vs 232? Thanks. Matt |
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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Any difference in the valve train, like do they both have rocker shafts? Some of the early ones had oiling issues where the oil feed to the rocker shaft would plug up. There is a head bolt mod but if oil is getting to the front rocker that is still OK.
I've never had a 199 but some say they can be made to turn faster with cam, carb, exhaust etc. changes. I'd go with whatever engine has the least miles. I have one with low miles that had oiling problems and one with high miles that didn't. The high mileage engine has considerably more cylinder wear. Both engines will have the early six bolt pattern. |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4738 |
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I drove a 1968 American convertible with a 232 3-on the tree and it was a fun and zippy little car. You're showing your age, Matt! No '68 American convertibles... Paul p.s. Sorry, I was trying to quote you and ended up editing you. My bad! Edited by ramblinrev - Jan/17/2018 at 5:57pm |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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There was some discussion earlier here on trying different and better clutches such as Mustang due to scarcity of the Rambler parts.
Both my 232's have two barrel Carter WCD carbs. The throttle plates turn opposite to the single barrel carb I had on a 196.
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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Thanks. The 199 runs great. The 232 may be iffy. I would certainly have to break the 232 down and see what I had. Not sure I want to put that much time into it.
Got the new clutch in today and it runs awesome with the little 199. Plenty of power for my wants for the car. May put some new shocks on it and call it a day for now. Maybe later put a better cam and carb on it. Or sell it. We'll see. Thanks very much for the input.
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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6768rogues
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6231 |
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OD cars usually get lower rear end gears. Your donor car might have a good ratio depending on what the other has and your typical driving.
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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I put 2.73 rear end gear ratio on my 69 with the 360/904/8.8 rear because I like to cruise the highway without winding it out. Some thought I was crazy with that ratio but with the beefed up 904 I love it. I'd bet my 68 manual transmission might have the same ratio. I will pull off the differential cover and check out what I have in it. Again, I may pull the 232 out of my parts car and just keep it around for now before I scrap the 69 440 carcass.
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19592 |
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68 199 MT cars got a 3.08 axle as standard, 3.31 and 3.58 optional. OD cars got a 3.31 standard, but 3.08 or 3.58 were optional. I wouldn't want a 199 OD with 3.08, wouldn't pull OD well unless at high speed (around 70). I tried running a 3.08 with my 4.6L EFI/AW4 combo. No point in using OD unless going at least 70, even though the 4.6L WOULD pull it -- didn't struggle, but did work harder. Average gas mileage went up 2 mpg when I dropped to a 3.55 axle (Jag IRS). Wish I could have found 3.31 gears, think that would be the sweet spot! The early AW4 has a 0.70:1 OD, just like the old BW OD Ramblers used. Jag used 3.31 gears in Europe with the smaller six and five speed, but never over here in the states. I could get 3.31 gears, but would cost more than the 1-2 mpg saved over 5-6 years... (ordering from Europa and having professionally installed).
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Frank Swygert
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LakesideRamblin
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/21/2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 2676 |
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Thanks Farna.
No sweat, FSJunkie. I wish I had the 68 car as a 232 convertible. It would be great fun as the weather is good here! You are definitely correct, I am 57 and feeling every year when I put my bones on the ground, crawl underneath one of my cars and fix or remove something for a good part of the day 😂 I drool when I see pics of a nice lift on the Forum. But there is something about a 3 on the tree that I just love. Probably because I drove several of them (different makes) as a teenager (back when I could get on the ground under any car with ease and absolutely no pain the next day 😁 Edited by LakesideRamblin - Jan/18/2018 at 9:21am |
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LakesideRamblin
69 Rambler 360 73 Javelin 360 "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month." T. Roosevelt |
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DaemonForce
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/05/2012 Location: Olympia, WA Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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This is unfortunately true. It is also unfortunate that no one can get a set of 3.31 gears for a Dana30/35 combo. To me it probably makes more sense to stick with 3.08 but I have a T-5. |
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1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31 1983 American Limited Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72 |
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