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Super T10

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Trader View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2020 at 5:27pm
So, going back 30 years, you could take the guts out of the GM Super T10 and put them in the AMC T10.
Everything would fit, but the bearings had to be changed for the counter shaft, the shifter fork levers from the AMC had to be used with the Hurst shifter, the pilot bearing in the flywheel had to be longer, the clutch and slip yoke had to be the GM.
The other way of doing this was to turn down the ends of the counter shaft and use the original bearings. The original bearings, as memory serves, were narrower and a spacer had to be installed.
As stated above the parts to do this may not be readily available now, the changes are not well documented, and transmission shops had all the parts - THEN.

The Tremec or T5 are likely the best documented, best driver option, looking at it with today's eyes.
I put a T5 in my car and would never go back to a T10.
The Tremec is likely the better option now.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2020 at 5:32pm

I dont think gnrnd is trying to retrofit an off brand SuperT10 (GM or other)?  from his other posts he has a factory Hurst shifter that likely would not fit other applications.  

Per the AMC publication: Performance American Style – (start quote) “Borg-Warner "T-10" 4-speed boxes have been used in three different series in production, and are available in two other series as aftermarket items.  All gear sets interchange.  However, there are differences in throw-out bearing and collar that should be considered.  The T-10 “V” used with 68-69 model 390 engines incorporated a large front bearing cap (#318 5168) and throw out bearing (#320 7521).  All other T-10’s (including aftermarket T-10) use a smaller bearing and cap.  For performance applications, the larger parts should be used.   Gear ratio depends on type of competition.

Production T-10

“T” series 2.64, 2.10, 1.49, 1.00

“P” series 2.43, 1.76, 1.47, 1.00

“V” series 2.23, 1.77, 1.35, 1.00

Aftermarket Super T-10

“W” series 2.64, 1.75, 1.33, 1.00

“S” series 2.43, 1.61, 1.23, 1.00”  (end quote)

My comments

The book doesn’t discuss the grooves or splines.  Not sure where I got it, but below is what I have for the grooves.  From working with other aftermarket input gears, they did not necessarily follow the groove identification scheme (a lot has happened in 50 yrs).  As far as the splines go, I would think any 10.5” clutch that fits the splines should work (he didn’t mention the shaft diameter).  It makes sense that a heavy-duty transmission (super) would use an input-shaft/clutch with more splines.

2:64 T  3 Grooves

2:43 P  4 Grooves

2:23 V  5 Grooves

2:64 W - Super 1 Groove

2:43 S - Super 1 Groove

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 6:53am
This has been discussed many times. AMC used a T10 and not a super T10 (which came out after 1970). The internal parts are different as BBGJC said, and it has been said many times before - by people that have actually rebuilt a T10 and bought parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 8:33am
I agree that no super was installed from the factory, but I directly quoted from the AMC Publication - Performance American Style Page 13 that indicates that "Aftermarket" T10s were available.  Later on in the book, it discusses using the Aftermarket T10s in thier highest level performance level Mode 4 (7,500+ RPM Capability) Quote from page 36 (Start Quote) ... the Super T-10 Special Wide "W" series seems to work best (end quote).  Aparently one of the writers at AMC thought they had one.

I have never worked on a Super-T10 from any brand, but I can probably dig up the receipt for the last AMC T-10 small parts kit I installed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1948kaiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 8:42am
the sellers on ebay keep listing them as super t10 or super t10 parts for an amc when they are not. even a trans dated in the 67 to 69 they will list as a super t10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 10:04am
Take a look at this rebuild kit, BK177HDWS-SAO
It's for the AMC and 1st design GM Super T10.
Most everyone is familiar with the 2nd design GM only T10.
Now look at this page on the GM parts list:
They list the 1st design parts separate from the second design.
1974, GM BW T10 1st design shared many parts of our beloved AMC T10. And the parts of this transmission, including high content nickel gears, heavy duty bearings, better syncros, and even the main and idler shafts could be interchanged - IF you had someone with the parts and know how.
I bet this guy knows:



Edited by Trader - Feb/15/2020 at 2:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1948kaiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 5:16pm
got another on that is selling cluster shafts to go in the cluster gear as fitting a amc t10 or a super t10. the diameter is one inch. yes one inch. the amc t10 uses on that is 7/8 inch. must be magic to get it to fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2020 at 8:43pm
Sorry for the bluntness but please read!
113
T85B-3
T10 COUNTERSHAFT EARLY 7/8 DIAMETER
26.80
I did this years ago yes, with a LOT of help from the transmission shop next door were I worked, it fits - more then once!
This is the GM Super Gen1 T10, NOT the Super Gen 2.
The Gen 2 has a 1" counter shaft, a bearing between 2nd and 3rd, and 3/4" longer case.
The GM Gen 1 is the same case "size" as the AMC, 7/8" counter shaft dia, no bearing between 2nd and 3rd, with almost all the same parts. You can put GM Gen 1 T10 guts in an AMC case with all the available upgrades GM offered later. Including changing gear ratios and using the GM clutch which is 10.4" on the higher input spline main shaft, not a huge loss.
We used a GM McLeod clutch bolted, without modification, to the AMC flywheel. I don't know if all this is available TODAY. but it was THEN.
The AMC case is required for the bell housing mounting, the shifter mounting and transmission mounting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ram Air Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/15/2020 at 2:07pm

 NOT busting chops here, but the red highlighted and enlarged AMC transmission 1st gear ratios vs input shaft groove information, in my experience, isn't correct. Every AMC T-10 I have, have seen, or owned that has the 2.23 first gear ratio, has 4 rings on the input shaft. The current AMC T-10 2.43 transmission I have, doesn't have any rings on the input shaft.

 In contrast to this, all the AMC T-10's with the 2.64 1st gear ratio I have, have seen, or have had, do have three rings on the input shaft.

 A few years back I purchased what was suppose to be a 2.43 AMC T-10 . When we received it, we decided to spin the trans just to verify it was in fact the 2.43 . It wound up being a 2.23. When I questioned the seller, I found out he went off the often spread misinformation, that everybody seems to find and trust. Heck it even makes sense in the progression of things. It's just not a full truth.  

 The person I bought that transmission from I trust fully and knew he'd made honest mistake. I decided to keep the trans anyhow, even though he offered to refund my money.

 I know the poster here, was just trying to add to this thread. Thought I'd add my 2 cents for what it's worth.


Quote from previous post:

The book doesn’t discuss the grooves or splines.  Not sure where I got it, but below is what I have for the grooves.  From working with other aftermarket input gears, they did not necessarily follow the groove identification scheme (a lot has happened in 50 yrs).  As far as the splines go, I would think any 10.5” clutch that fits the splines should work (he didn’t mention the shaft diameter).  It makes sense that a heavy-duty transmission (super) would use an input-shaft/clutch with more splines.

2:64 T  3 Grooves

2:43 P  4 Grooves

2:23 V  5 Grooves

2:64 W - Super 1 Groove

2:43 S - Super 1 Groove



Edited by Ram Air Rick - Feb/15/2020 at 7:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/15/2020 at 2:27pm
I bought , AMC case, that was sold as 2.43 but its 2.23 and 2 groove. Cost too much in shipping to return. You have to spin them to make sure. Buyer beware! 
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