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Sub frame connectors - overkill?

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2016 at 6:44am
I agree... plus if you noticed a few past posts by members, there are some that show how well the body keeps straight by how they balanced their body on a lift.

I have lifted my body at its balanced center point to see how it flexes as for the door fitment to the door frame. Mind you this body is unrestored with high milage with 30 years of use as a daily driver.

The doors close and keep proper alignment with 1/16 deviation in corner height. Which is pretty darn good IMO. Though some may find it not so for their car, due to rust or door hinge issues.

Though, if racing on autocross, I would beef up the frame by utilizing some intergral roll cage tube steel reinforcements at the corners along with a custom cross bar to bolt at the steering box holes on both left and right sides. Hardly any welding if any to the fron frame as the front section is drop in and bolts to the firewall and roll cage in the car.

The key is to stablize the corners not over do on frame to compensate for corner twist. Seems that the frame and body structure is good at flex in the up and down axis. The suspension and lateral axis is weak.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raceral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2016 at 2:22pm
If you start stiffening up the chassis with sub frame connectors or tying a roll hoop to the chassis etc,you are going to make the suspension work more because the chassis is now extra stiff, this won't work if you are using old tired springs.
One thing always leads to another and cost needs to be looked at from the start of a change to the finish of things needed because of that change.
Sometimes it is not always worth the effort if the car is just going to be a cruiser. If it is going to be more than a cruiser then you might have to look at more than just sub frame connectors.

Al
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shootist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2016 at 3:36pm
My 1970 Javelin lead a life of being driven pretty hard and the unibody was tweaked and needed straightening on a frame machine. That being said, for the cost of subframe connectors and the added strength the provide I would think it is a no brainer. $200 for subframe connectors is cheaper than time on a frame machine. However, if you are a daily driver and not putting a ton of power to the rear wheels (with traction) then the body will not twist bad enough to cause a problem with a stock setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THE MENACE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2016 at 4:27pm

If you can fabricate with metal, for about $65.00 worth of steel one can build their own SFC's that are stronger and tuck up tighter to the floor than the ones currently on the market.

Dennis   
Former Owner of:
The Craig Breedlove "AERO AMX"

Still Owner:
SS/AMX #9 replica (THE BIG MENACE)
70 AMX 416, EFI, Nash 5 speed   
70 Javelin 401, 727 (Wife's car)
72 Gremlin Autocross Project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2016 at 11:13pm
My Hemi/ Javelin recently got hit in the rear. The impact was hard enough to buckle the quarter panel into the door that impacted the back edge of the fender. It only chipped the paint on the door and fender. I would like to think that the sub frame connectors and mods I made to the rear frame rails in order to mini tub this car helped save it from further damage to the unit body. While unit bodies are usually pretty strong, most are designed to fold up under impact of a crash to lessen the blow to the occupants. I still have to replace the bumper and tail light panel as well as pull the quarter back some but I don't believe I have any serious frame damage.
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2016 at 12:26am
Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:

I would recommend careful steps than to shoot at the all at once approach. This way you can tell what had done best for your needs, than to have a big change thrown at your lap.

this! wise words!

1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2016 at 12:33am
Originally posted by 71hornet6 71hornet6 wrote:


I am guessing there are levels to upgrading the suspension
Level one: replace all the bushings and shocks
Level 2/3: replace rear springs if needed
etc...

actually, "level one" replace ALL wear parts -- 

i have a loose rule of thumb when i obtain a "new" rambler --

* replace wheels with NEW STEEL WHEELS

* replace ALL FOUR SPRINGS.

* then new tires, shocks, bushings, etc.

old wheels are anything but round. they rust. they leak, wobble, etc. most recently i went to 16" steel wheels -- about $100 a wheel, but then you are open to about 10 times more tires sizes than 14's, which are pretty much obsolete. 16's still allow decent profiles for our older suspensions, where the tire itself is expected to take a lot of the small stuff. super -low -pro tires ride harsh! 16's still look close to stock, but whatever floats your boat there.... also, you can select tires for the same diameter so that overall gear ratios etc and your speedo stay correct. that's the biggest advantage of metric tire sizing.

all old springs are tired! and other than dead/broken parts, springs determine ride, comfort, safety, alignment, handling, and look. i did not realize until i used a suspension calculator (vsusp.net) how much correct ride height determines alignment and handling. 

lowering and suspension mods are a large subject, but all are predicated on yu having something solid to begin with!


1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5
http://www.ramblerLore.com

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53w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 53w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2016 at 1:46am
My cousin runs sub frame connector on all his unibody cars swears by them. He run 500hp on all his builds. His point is yes they could make hp years ago, but tires sucked and modern tires rims and hp will twist up a stock car. Crack paint, joints, ect. Any thing more then 400hp and good tires and drag racing it on the weekends needs connectors.

Edited by 53w - Jun/15/2016 at 9:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2016 at 6:00am
Not bad advice -- but the key is 400+ hp.  Under that and you should have no issues. That's not a design flaw -- few cars are designed with 400+ hp in mind. If it is, it will have additional body support. Take the SC/Rambler, for example. AMC knew the body would flex even with the 343 hi-po engine (that's why they only sold a few Rogues in 67 with the 343, then discontinued the option). The SC/Rambler coupe bodies have all the convertible bracing in them, making them a good bit stiffer. They will still flex a little when prepped for serious drag racing. 
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 343sharpstick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/15/2016 at 11:45am
Originally posted by THE MENACE THE MENACE wrote:


If you can fabricate with metal, for about $65.00 worth of steel one can build their own SFC's that are stronger and tuck up tighter to the floor than the ones currently on the market.

Dennis   


Just what I was thinking!
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