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Strange intermittent auto trans problem--65 classi |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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I did something similar on the first auto trans I built. Rebuilt it, made no difference (it wasn't shifting right). Took it to a shop. They took it partially apart, said they didn't find anything I should come pick it up. I think they figured out they didn't know anything about BW auto trannys. They didn't see any point in putting it back together. Went to an older one-man shop that had been in business a long time. He told me he'd have to charge for a complete rebuild, but he'd take it. He found one cracked ring, but otherwise noting obvious. He ended up throwing the original VB across a field in back of the shop and replaced it with a used one from a junk trans he had. It gave him fits trying to get it working right, but he wouldn't give up! Changed the VB after a couple days messing with it though.
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Frank Swygert
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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calereeves
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Anybody have an extra vb handy?
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1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country
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amcenthusiast
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2012 Location: SW Atlanta GA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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Hey Calereeves, the piece of o-ring is your clue.
You should be able to identify by the curvature and and the cross-sectional shape; large diameter or small & round or rectangular -they are very specific to their locations. Did I miss you saying you have a TSM? If not you may be able to go to a public library and copy the pages out of one of those large green 'cars and trucks' repair books? That's what I did when I did my first AMC BW 35-41 aluminum case. I found my trans in the big green repair book listed under 'Austin Marina, MGC, Jaguar, Volvo' -the way they describe how to overhaul it is different when compared to AMC TSMs, which sometimes helps? ...there really aren't too many o-rings; the servos and the clutch drums/doubt it was the front pump seal looking at my copied manual, it says when 'D' is selected, front clutch is applied (neither band) so I think it may be a shredded o-ring piece from the front clutch drum. this means you may have had some difficulty installing the pressure plate and forced it, maybe nicking the o-ring seal (so it worked for a short time but then blew under pressure/operation?) sorry... (the rear clutch drum is the more difficult one w the heavy spring = you know the 'two c-clamps & two socket trick' to compress the stiff spring I guess? (how to do it not having the 'proper' tool) the good thing is you are not working on a big Ford Truck auto trans; dang I'll never do that again (several times yeah darn thing had stripped out pan bolts with lil' bitty headed metric speed bolts causing heck with the whole unit) -took all my strength just to heave it around in my shop areas (what a monster) don't use solvents to clean the parts -can damgage binder/adhesive of the clutch frictions and/or ruin rubber seals. I use a water bucket, Dawn liquid soap and a scrub brush, then blow dry with compressed air, then bag assemblies in clean bags to prevent dust/etc contamination. then I use a plastic storage container lid for a work tray to keep all the liberally applied trans fluid/assembly lube under control. Great thing is they only go together one way; nearly every single part is unique and specific (almost foolproof once one has done it a few times) another good thing is that you won't have to go to the gym to get a good workout... I always use two big stacks of wood under the axle so I can unbolt the rear and slide/push it back with my feet when I'm under the jackstand supported car... if you are muscular/in good shape you can even pull the case without removing the bell and torque converter by hand... I used to be able to do the iron case units by hand & T10s! but not anymore... getting over the hill... 'whoever made up that saying "three times a charm" was an optimistic idealist?' you can do it & a mistake is only another opportunity to learn from; you will get better & get it right if you set your mind on it
Edited by amcenthusiast - Jan/01/2015 at 7:04pm |
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amcenthusiast
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2012 Location: SW Atlanta GA Status: Offline Points: 1778 |
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oh yeah never use power steering fluid as a substitute hydraulic fluid if your trans is low just to get you home; it has seal sweller additives that will ruin the seals in the trans -and- unglue the binder/adhesive of the clutch friction material... (oops)
yes you may freely mix type F with Dexron; it will increase the grab quality of the frictions and bands -starting with the stock band adjustment specified in your overhaul manual, you may 'tighten the bands 1/4 turn tight' with no worry of increased wear; it will rather increase the durability of the both the bands and the frictions by reducing 'overlap' delay run time when the clutches and bands are releasing and applying setting the bands '1/4 turn tight' give a more firm shift (you choose softer or harder shift character) 'slip' = wear on the friction materials & more slip increases heat it's logical then on an air cooled BW auto to use Type F, raise the line pressure with tv cable or modulator and set the bands tighter (not too tight; 1/4 turn is exercising moderation) (if it ran lines to the rad, you'd want to add a cooler to reduce trans temp/better fluid quality if for hd use) over and out
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Cale, you might want to just pull your VB and clean it first, but make sure you have a TSM or manual of some kind... I think you mentioned having one already. It's easy to pull the servos and check the O-rings in them. I'd just do all I could without pulling the trans an try it first. No waste on the fluid -- strain it through a bit of cheesecloth or bed sheet material and put in a clean, sealed container. You won't get much in it just running a few minutes (assuming it doesn't work). What you do get will be too fine to do any harm. I'd pull the governor and clean it too. Might not be the problem (isn't likely), but won't hurt to clean it and make darned sure it can't be. Will take a few hours to do it all, but then you'll know you have to pull the trans and take it apart for inspection.
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Frank Swygert
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calereeves
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Wow! Thanks for all the info/tips, fellas. This forum always amazes me! I've got a TSM, one of the "Authentic Restoration Products" reprints. That's what I've used as my guide for everything on this car.
Farna- I already pulled the VB and cleaned it out. The TSM has a decent-enough description of how to put the VB back together, so I really don't think I managed to get that wrong. I still need to check the governor. After this weekend, I'll get the car back in the garage and pull that cover off. I'll probably go ahead and pull the tranny again if the governor doesn't change anything (not very hopeful...) AMCenthusiast- I did NOT check the front servo while I had the VB out...in too much of rush to get the car out of the garage to clean up. The piece of o-ring that was in the pan was too small to get a 100% positive ID on, but it looked fairly large cross section. Being such a small piece, it was hard to judge the overall diameter of the o-ring, since there's no tension holding it in shape--but it looks like it would have been fairly large...too large for the servo. It's been too long since I had the whole thing apart on the bench, so I can't really remember where other large o-rings went, but it sounds like the front drum o-ring you described. Thanks for all the tips when I go back together with it next time! The one thing I know I didn't do when I rebuilt it last time was flush the converter. I can't remember if there was a reason, or if I just didn't think about it, but there's no telling what was still lurking in there that went through my fresh rebuild right after I fired it up. This time when I pull it out, I'm going to find a transmission shop that will flush it for me.
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1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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Flushing the converter wouldnt have helped.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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Sounds like a plan -- good luck! Won't hurt to flush the convertor. but I dount that had anything to do with it. You probably pinched that o-ring on assembly and just didn't notice, and it finally gave way.
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Frank Swygert
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calereeves
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/11/2012 Location: Eagle River, AK Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Finally getting around to ordering the parts to rebuild it. I haven't yanked the tranny yet, but what's the over/under on the likelihood that the bands need to be replaced?
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1965 Rambler Classic 770 Cross Country
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