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Stock 6* AMX 390 - Initial timing? |
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OcalaAMX
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/18/2016 Location: Ocala, FL Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: Nov/19/2017 at 7:34am |
In the service manual it says "Ignition Timing @ 500 R.P.M. .... T.D.C. +-1".
The AMX is an automatic and all stock with an idle just over 800 RPM and shows 10 degrees advanced with a timing light and the vacuum advance disconnected. She runs great but does crank over slowly when hot. Just trying to troubleshoot. Thanks, Hal
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16614 |
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What idle RPM does the TSM say it should be when setting it at 6 degrees? Starter could be getting tired. 10 BFTD should not crank hard hot. 14-16 before ..sure.
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Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
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Two issues here.
One is you should have it timed at 0 deg as the TSM says. More timing advance will cause the problem you have and pinging / detonation at heavy loads and high engine speeds. Two is the heat stove in the intake manifold can be over heating. causes can be a out of balance exhaust system, especially if it is a dual exhaust or a closed heat riser valve on the passenger side exhaust manifold. Headers seem to aggravate the intake heat issue. Back in the bad old days of cheap (or free) AMC cars I blocked the heat cross over ports in the manifold with steel or aluminum inserts. I machined them for a 1/4 to 3/8 thick block off to prevent burn through. You live in Florida, you only need the intake heat for the choke operation. Electric or manual choke will be needed. Or no choke at all. |
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Gremlin Dreams
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Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
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With no heat stove the car will make more power everywhere and have way easier hot starts.
Yes, the starter, battery, solenoid or wiring could be getting weak. But I favor a over heated intake for the cause of the hot start issue. |
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Gremlin Dreams
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ccowx
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/03/2010 Location: Yukon Status: Offline Points: 3510 |
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You need to set it at 500 rpms if that is what the TSM says. Setting it at 800 rpms is meaningless, because it could be advancing a bit at those rpms due to weak springs and old age. As for initial timing, it should be ok with maybe about 5 degrees btdc, though I would start at the baseline of 0, as the TSM says. If my memory is serving me, the mechanical advance in the distributor is 32, which with an initial of 0 is a bit conservative anyway. Most guys shoot for a total advance(mechanical plus initial, no vac) of around 34-38.
Does the engine have an issue idling at the lower rpms? If it has a stock cam it should idle ok there, though you might have to set it a bit higher so that it does not stall when you drop it into gear. I believe that the stock idle rpms with an automatic should be around 650 or so? Once you have it set to stock specs, then you can determine if there is a problem. The guys above are right, there are several reasons why you could have a hot cranking issue, but you need to know what is going on with your timing before you jump to conclusions. Then you need to check the things like chokes and exhaust heat risers. Once all of the obvious is working right, and IF you still have a problem, then you can start trouble shooting. Chris |
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Green AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/16/2012 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 521 |
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Check battery and cables also check the ground cable from the engine to frame, if the engine or other parts are freshly painted make sure that they are making good ground.
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69 AMX 390 4speed go pack
72 Javelin 360 auto(sons) 82 Spirit (wife's 1st car)still not done |
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bobsterfl
AMC Nut Joined: Jun/18/2009 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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I know I'm a little late with this post, but here's what worked for me. Delco points distributor on a 390 with an R4B and Edelbrock carb, mild (214/224) cam.
I removed the rubber bushing from the advance stop and used a short piece of 1/4 inch copper tube to make a solid stop bushing. I had a bunch of springs and played around with them to get a maximum total of 36 degrees centrifugal advance at 2500 rpm. Advance at idle turned out to be 9 degrees BTDC. Then I swapped out the vacuum can for the beloved Echlin VC1765 unit available at NAPA stores everywhere. This can results in advance starting at 5-7 inches of vacuum and peaks out at 16 CRANKSHAFT degrees at at 11-13 inches of vacuum. The GOLDEN RULE for vacuum advance is to select a can that provides its FULL amount of advance at a point that is 2 inches less than your idle vacuum. That way the advance will be full on and steady at idle. So with this setup I have 36 degrees mechanical and 16 degrees vacuum at light load cruise for a total of 52 degrees. If that seems like a lot remember that as soon as you accelerate, manifold vacuum drops and the advance reverts to just the mecahnical. You really need vacuum advance, regardless of what the "experts" tell you. Engine runs cooler and is more responsive. Also, use full manifold vacuum, NOT ported. You want that extra advance at idle and ported vacuum won't cut it. For a really helpful discussion on vacuum advance, please refer to this article written by Lars Grimsrud. http://outintheshop.com/faq/Vac%20Adv%20Spec.pdf There was also a great article in a recent issue of Hot Rod Magazine that is worth reading. Just IMO |
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