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Stock 360 output

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WesternRed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/20/2017 at 8:29pm
Would probably help if I had a proper dial back timing light, at the moment I’m working with an old fixed timing light and masking tape on the balancer for the additional advance. Got a bit hectic last night after the big coolant leak, otherwise I could have experimented a bit more.

At 20 initial it is getting a little harder to start, so messing with the advance springs is the next course of action I guess.

I have ordered a Holley Sniper for it, so that will give me something else to play with, maybe I can use it to control the timing as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 70amcpwr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/20/2017 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by tached_out tached_out wrote:

It's trying to tell you it likes timing. At the risk of sounding annoying, I'll tell you it still wants a bunch more.

At 20 degrees initial, which is essentially what you're leaving the line with, it's still going to be a dog. The 10 degrees centrifugal isn't coming in until you're a couple of seconds into your run and quite a ways down the track. It's too little and too late. 

You got your best 60' with the most timing you've left the line with so far and it was still about 15 degrees too little. You need to start moving the car with around 38 degrees. With a less than optimal intake tract and being a little low on compression I bet it would like 40 degrees even more.

Get this timing sorted out so you can leave it alone and start playing with the rest of the tune.




Wouldn't a little wheel spin (RPM's ramping up) off of the line kick the centrifugal advance in instantly?
70amcpwr You just can't fix stupid.
SOLD 1970 BBO Javelin, wifes 73 AMX 360 4spd. Next project 1969 AMX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/21/2017 at 6:03pm
I'll just drop this here as well:



Plan is to initially set it up on the performer with a 1" open spacer.

I'm still thinking about a cam swap once it's up and running, so that would be a good opportunity to put the Torker on. Also saving the valve spring upgrade until after any cam swap so that I can break it in on the stock springs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tached_out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/21/2017 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by WesternRed WesternRed wrote:

Would probably help if I had a proper dial back timing light, at the moment I’m working with an old fixed timing light and masking tape on the balancer for the additional advance. Got a bit hectic last night after the big coolant leak, otherwise I could have experimented a bit more.

At 20 initial it is getting a little harder to start, so messing with the advance springs is the next course of action I guess.

I have ordered a Holley Sniper for it, so that will give me something else to play with, maybe I can use it to control the timing as well.

You don't need a dial back timing light. Here's all you do;

Measured the diameter of your torsional dampener. If you find it to be 6.7344 like mine is, all you need is a piece of tape 2 1/4'' long applied to the right of the line on the dampener. Or a line painted 2 1/4'' to the right. That is where 38 degrees before TDC is.

Now just check that when all the centrifugal advance is in, your new mark at 2 1/4'' is in line with 0 or TDC on the timing tab.

With super soft springs, that will happen at idle so there's no need to hang your face over all the stuff at the front of the motor spinning at high rpm.

If you don't have soft springs, you can use those tiny elastic bands that people with braces on their teeth use. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/21/2017 at 6:30pm
Masking tape on the damper has been working for me, but it tends to fall off, so maybe something a little more permanent would be the go (15mm = 10 deg).

Dial back timing light that displays RPM as well would really help to be able to see when the actual advance curve. Handheld controller on the Sniper might do the trick as far as giving me a tacho I can see from the engine bay   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S Curry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/22/2017 at 11:44am
I have used timing tape available at just about any auto parts store. Just have to know the diameter of the balancer and peal off the  correct sticker and stick it on. No need for a dial back light then. Worked for me setting up my timing and timing curve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/03/2018 at 4:58pm
One of the great features of the Sniper is the data logging capability which records all of the system parameters for you and you can review these on a PC, pity you can't playback on the handheld though for more immediate use. You can hook the system up to a PC rather than the handheld though if you want a bit more capability in this area.

Here is my first run from last night, 15.205 @ 93.76 mph, last I looked a stand alone data logger like this would cost nearly as much as the Sniper):



Pretty much on par for last time out, but what's very obvious from the chart (TPS line) is that I wasn't hitting full throttle. I pretty much figured this out without reviewing that data, but it is nice to see confirmation.

By run 3, I'd got it down to 14.674 @ 95.72 mph with full throttle through 2nd and 3rd gears, not sure what's going on if first, maybe I just need to stand on the pedal a little harder:



Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can give some insight into the data, seems like maybe it's going a little lean off the line.

Full set of times and a new PB of 14.415 @ 95.9 mph on the last run:



Run 4, didn't get full throttle in 2nd and ran slower.

Run 5, added some more timing since I've still got some work to do there. Did notice that the coolant temperature was pushing 220 after messing around with the timing, red lit as well as not on the throttle hard enough, so not a good run.

Next two runs were much better, although I did push it a bit too hard on run 6 and had valve bounce at the gear changes. Somehow I managed to knock the SD card out of the handheld unit so wasn't able to log any data on the last 2 runs.

Still lots to learn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/30/2018 at 4:07pm
Just re-checked the timing and it looks like I now have 20 degrees initial plus 18 degrees mechanical advance, all in by 1750 RPM, that was for the last three runs above. Back out tonight with the rear main seal and I have made some small changes to lighten up the throttle pedal so hopefully I can hit full throttle consistently.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/01/2018 at 3:53pm
New PB first run off the trailer 14.245 @ 97.95, but couldn't match that for the rest of the night, next best was 14.307 @ 96.92. At least it's still headed in the right direction. 

Had issues shifting gears on a couple of runs going straight from 1st to 3rd, factory shifter is a bit touchy, not sure if there is a solution for that without going aftermarket? I will have a bit of a fiddle with the adjustment and see if that helps.

Also struggles a bit with coolant temperatures, not many cars last night so the runs were coming around pretty quick. Seems the factory flex fan is not generating enough airflow so I think some electric thermo fans are a priority, might help a little with the times too.

Best thing is now that I've changed the rear main seal, I don't need to wipe the bottom of the car down between runs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2018 at 11:33pm
I've done an electric fan conversion since the last time out and can now maintain coolant temperatures around 185-195. It also helped a bit with the times, but maybe not as much as I had hoped, although I am thinking the previous PB of 14.245 may have been a bit of a freak run.



The best thing about these times is that I'm starting to see some consistency (except for the crappy reaction times), but still having a few issues shifting as per runs 1 and 3.

The question is what to do next, I do have a CRT reverse pattern manual valve body laying around. That might solve the gear selection issues if nothing else. It currently just has the stock valve body in it.

Also still have the cam swap up my sleeve, but need to buy lifters and a timing set.

Edited by WesternRed - Feb/14/2018 at 11:42pm
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