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Steering Not Centered After Gear/Pitman Arm Work

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    Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 2:13pm
Hey all. I've been doing some work on my '78 Concord's steering components. The car has been running fine other than a leaky power stearing gear. Last week I installed a re-manufactured steering gear (Lares), and a new pitman arm (Mevotech) from RockAuto. After installation everything seems fine, but the steering wheel is now sitting about 90* to the right while driving straight (keep in mind the car is NOT pulling in either direction and still appears to be tracking straight). The alignment was perfect before the steering gear/pitman arm went in, but I figured I'd check the alignment anyway. With the steering wheel centered, the right wheel has about 4cm of toe-in, while the left wheel is towed slightly outward. I tried adjusting the tie rod sleeves to correct this, but the sleeve on the left wheel is as tight as it will go and the wheel is still slightly towed out. Meanwhile, the sleeve on the right wheel has lots of exposed tie rod thread and the wheel is no where close to being out far enough.

So what gives? The pitman arm/shaft have a deep groove every 90* to insure proper alignment. Is it possible something was machined wrong? Is there something else I'm missing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomslik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 3:24pm
used to run into that with chevy/gmc pckups. no other changes aside from the pitman arm. machined wrong....I wasn't aware of any other makes having the same problem though

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 5:04pm
I agree that the Pitman arm splines are not located in the same place as the original as compared to the master groove.  Happened on my 95 Dodge truck with replacement Moog Pitman Arm.
Ross K. Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 5:14pm
Is it possible that it was incorrect before the change? My Eagle had enough play in the old box that when I put a new one on, the wheel was off-center!
The NEW was correct but the old was WRONG.
Compare the new pitman to the old - that should be easy (I keep ALL old parts under I am dead-certain all things are right and perfect)
I agree that new parts could be wrong, but it's also possible your old setup had issues and now it's correct. But the only way to know is to compare parts, etc.
Like I say - toe had to be reset and the wheel centered again after putting on only a new steering sector because the old was so bad off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 9:44pm
That's what I was thinking, but with the steering wheel centered, I get an even 1.5 turns in each direction until I hit the stops. The steering wheel is centered on the gear, and the wheel toe can't physically be adjusted any further... so unless something in the gear wasn't put back together right during re-manufacturing, I can't see what else it could be other than the pitman arm.

I guess I'll pull the pitman arm off and compare with the original. I did compare before putting it on, but perhaps didn't look quite closely enough...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/10/2018 at 10:57pm
With the wheel centered (between the 1.5 turns left and 1.5 turns right) is the pitman perfectly straight ahead?
It should be.
If you are out of toe adjustment, honestly, I question if there's something BENT. 
There's a whole lot of toe adjustment on most AMCs......... unless you have modified the car in some way such as height, radical camber, etc. for racing. 

I checked my cars by making sure the pitman was a perfectly straight line pointing perfectly forward when the wheel was straight from the driver perspective, then I put the new tie rods in place and got each side pretty close - in fact the alignment shop said my toe was really close.
I have several threads outside of the sleeves and the tie rods are well into the sleeves - I could easily get a lot more toe in or out with all of my cars, so..........

Well, there's some more stuff to think on - sounds like you have a decent idea of what you're doing and what to look at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maximus7001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/11/2018 at 5:31am
The whole front unibody of these cars can "migrate". This can happen to most 1970-1988 models. I lost my 85 Eagle from too much front unibody migration.

There was a yellow 70 AMX in an old thread called OLD YELLER but all the pictures are gone. It was about the successful repair of this "migration".





Edited by maximus7001 - Jul/11/2018 at 5:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/14/2018 at 10:24am
Two easy ways to correct this, assuming everything is in good working order, just steering wheel clocked wrong:
1) Alignment shop might be able to make some adjustments to center the wheel.
2) Pull wheel and re-clock on shaft. You still might not get it perfect, may have to take it to an alignment shop to get it just right anyway.

I'd drive it for a while first. Could be that the new parts just need to "break in", especially the steering box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/14/2018 at 12:26pm
LOL - sorry, that's  cobble that's more likely to cause trouble than to fix anything. It ain't a fix. 
If a person pulls the steering wheel to "reclock", first, it isn't always possible because the splines are made to not allow that in many cases - for good reason.
But finally, you are throwing the steering sector off-center, there's a high-point to that box and moving the steering wheel means you have fewer turns, even if only by a FRACTION, one way than the other, and you run the steering sector in a place it was never intended to run.
I guess if I must, even though this has been discussed several other times over the years, I'll drag out books and spend time to show why the makers of steering equipment say "no, don't do that".
I know - a lot of shade-treers have done it over the years and say "what's the big deal, it works", it's just plain covering a PROBLEM and yeah, I mean problem, elsewhere, such as bent or damaged parts, incorrect parts and so on, again, it puts that sector in a place it wasn't intended to run going down the road. 
Early cars we used a punch to mark, but I've noted that many of the cars I've worked on lately, including my own, only went on one way - likely the factory fixed that issue with people simply moving the wheel to correct wear or damage.

Do whatever - it  isn't my car, but simply moving a wheel is possibly only covering something bad or wrong elsewhere.

If I remember correctly, with the steering wheel straight,  he said he had exactly the same number of turns left as he does right - meaning the steering wheel isn't "off", something else is.
Plus, the wheel was centered before the sector change, so likely he never had the wheel off just to change sector and/or pitman. So the wheel shouldn't be in question.
(the flex joint (some call "rag joint") parts are indexed, are they not? Meaning those can't be put back on incorrectly.......?)


Edited by billd - Jul/14/2018 at 1:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/15/2018 at 1:01am
i'll back bill up here -- the modern recirculating-ball boxes (post-Gemmer boxes in the early ramblers) have *variable* wheel/box play, with play closest to zero only when the box sector is *exactly* centered in it's range. when off-center there is a lot more play in the wheel. this is a design feature. if you get the steering wheel and road wheels centered when the box/pitman arm are off-center, there will be a LOT of play in the middle, it will get tight to one side (where the true "zero" is) then loose again.

all of this is why steering shaft end play and drag is set the way the TSM specifies -- with the drag link or pitman arm disconnected and the box precisely centered. it's the only way to get it right. turning the screw with the tires on the ground is a waste of time.

the older Gemmer type boxes are just a worm on the shaft driving the sector on the pitman shaft don't seem to have these issues. they're much simpler, but also much higher numerical ratio (i think mine's 20:1!) i suspect the modern low ratios/faster boxes aren't practical with the old worm/sector system, probably wear badly. recirculating balls spreads the wear out over a lot more area and are better lubricated.

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