Scarebird Disks and Steel Wheels

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   I'm debating between the small and large disk brake kits Scarebird offers for my '67 American but not sure which way to go yet. Looking for some feedback on the issues below:
1. Wheels. The large brake kit requires larger rims. Scarebird says 15" can fit, but it looks like they had to file a bit on the caliper for that to happen, so maybe 16" would be better. I'd really like to stay with a steel rim because I really like the poverty dish hubcap and trim ring combo on my car. I know i'd have to lose the trim ring and there are a few threads discussing bigger rims that accept our stock hubcaps, but there never seems to be any solution (if there is one) presented.
	Is there an aftermarket steel rim that accepts our stock hubcaps that clears the big brake kit? 
	And for those of you who have done this conversion, what are your wheel specs? (dia, width, BS/offset)
	How wide can you go in the front? Id like at least a 7" width all the way around. 

2. Looking forward. I could go with the small disk brakes and keep my stock rims, hubcaps, and trim rings and give up the extra braking capacity and wider tires, but I will eventually be swapping in an 8.8. That rear will not clear with 14" rims (or so i'm told) so i'd have to get bigger wheels eventually anyway. That would also leave me with bigger disks in the rear than the front. I could use a proportioning valve to mitigate that, but is that an accepted solution or just a bandaid and i'll have to go bigger in the front anyway? 
	Have any of you ever been in this situation, and what have you done?

3. Impressions. For those of you who have done the Scarebird conversion, how do you like it? Did you pick the small or large disks? Did you change the MC or just pull the little residual pressure valve? Anything you don't like? I don't think you need to turn the hubs with the big kit, but I think the caliper mounting bracket looks a bit more complicated...

I will be going thru the whole system when I do the conversion - front brake kit, new front lines, disk MC (possibly), rebuild rear drums (8.8 swap will come later), proportioning valve (if needed), etc. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row before hand.

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
RTTComanche17 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/19/2009 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 73	Post Options Post Reply Quote RTTComanche17 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Scarebird Disks and Steel Wheels Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 12:44am
	I'm debating between the small and large disk brake kits Scarebird offers for my '67 American but not sure which way to go yet. Looking for some feedback on the issues below: 1. Wheels. The large brake kit requires larger rims. Scarebird says 15" can fit, but it looks like they had to file a bit on the caliper for that to happen, so maybe 16" would be better. I'd really like to stay with a steel rim because I really like the poverty dish hubcap and trim ring combo on my car. I know i'd have to lose the trim ring and there are a few threads discussing bigger rims that accept our stock hubcaps, but there never seems to be any solution (if there is one) presented. Is there an aftermarket steel rim that accepts our stock hubcaps that clears the big brake kit? And for those of you who have done this conversion, what are your wheel specs? (dia, width, BS/offset) How wide can you go in the front? Id like at least a 7" width all the way around. 2. Looking forward. I could go with the small disk brakes and keep my stock rims, hubcaps, and trim rings and give up the extra braking capacity and wider tires, but I will eventually be swapping in an 8.8. That rear will not clear with 14" rims (or so i'm told) so i'd have to get bigger wheels eventually anyway. That would also leave me with bigger disks in the rear than the front. I could use a proportioning valve to mitigate that, but is that an accepted solution or just a bandaid and i'll have to go bigger in the front anyway? Have any of you ever been in this situation, and what have you done? 3. Impressions. For those of you who have done the Scarebird conversion, how do you like it? Did you pick the small or large disks? Did you change the MC or just pull the little residual pressure valve? Anything you don't like? I don't think you need to turn the hubs with the big kit, but I think the caliper mounting bracket looks a bit more complicated... I will be going thru the whole system when I do the conversion - front brake kit, new front lines, disk MC (possibly), rebuild rear drums (8.8 swap will come later), proportioning valve (if needed), etc. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row before hand.
	1967 Rambler American #1 - junkyard rescue parts car 1967 Rambler American #2 - project car, but it runs!...for now...

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 1:03am
	i've done 3 scarebird conversions with 3 different kits. i dont know about this current small vs large thing, cant help you there. but consider that whatever "small" means, likely they outperform the the drums it came with, so unless you're road racing, size may not be that important. (and front rear balance is, a separate subject). i'm running i think Previa rotors on 1963 AMerican 9" front hubs. i had to turn them down, the OD, to fit. luckily i have a friend with a small lathe. all 3 kits were great. the 2nd one, on a 63 American, had to be ground to clear lower trunnion. he fixed that in the shipped item. wasn't a killer, and now solved. he responds well. quality is not an issue. it's just one guy in a garage, i think, instructions are occasionally unclear but his stuff is top notch, imho. i dont need shiny handholding, i ewant quality and reliability. i got that. i run custom steel wheels from Stockton Wheel or Wheelsmith. here in CA. they do NOT accept AMC hub caps, sorry to say. i bought the chrome moons, but no longer run them. i have long lubs in all four axles and run Moroso tall black oxide nuts, black steel wheels, and to me, it looks great. it at least looks intentional! YMMV. i have run stock masters always. i might move to a WIllwood master cuz i now need a smaller bore and i can't find one in the old cast iron boatanchor style. all seem to be 1" bore. my research has shown that pretty much all the OEM dual circuit master cyls are the same -- what varies are the port thread size, left or right side, cover styles, and i think the pushrod hole depth. they all mount the same way -- largeish hole for the nose, two bolt flange. the bolt spacing varies i think, but not by much! but when my 1963 master cyl was $225, i found that a 1964 was $28 new! NEW! but had the wrong size threaded ports. so i bought $3 Dorman adapters. i don't even ask 'drum or disc' i just get what i want and if there's a dinky check valve in it, yank it. in my hot road rambler, i'm running some dumb dirt common Chebby master because i fabricated everything including the pushrod. they all work exactly the same. brakes used to be a mystery, now i think they're one of the simplest things in the car. not that there aren't subtleties and things to go wrong, but safety, paranoia, redundancy, etc narrowed the designs down to some brutally simple and workable solutions. i have no idea what's gone on past the 1990's or in furrin' veehickles. i know the new stuff is much better, but it's outside my needs, and doesn't bolt on :-) when i have to deal with it, i will. prolly won't fit under a Rambler spindle though.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 6:53am
	The "small" Scarebird brakes are what you have Tom -- 10" rotors. The big kit uses a 12" rotor. Braking capacity isn't just rotor diameter RTTComanche17. Size of pad and size of piston(s) come into affect also. The larger rotor on the Ford 8.8" might not have any more braking power than the 10" fronts. In any case, I'd check it after installing and use an adjustable proportioning valve to compensate if necessary. I think you can run 15" wheels with the Explorer brakes (not positive, check!). If so you should be able to locate 15" steel AMC wheels. They will likely be 6" or 6.5" though. Later model big cars may have 7" wheels, like 70s Matadors. You can always make some steel tabs and screw them to wheels to hold the AMC dog dish caps. I've seen an old hot rod done that way to hold some other dog dish caps (forget what)... they screwed the cap onto the tabs instead of snapping on. Made it a little tougher to change tires, but just three screws and a screwdriver tougher. I wouldn't weld to the wheel, just use a small 1/8" or so screw -- drill and tap wheel.
	Frank Swygert

nothingface5384 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Dec/21/2014 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 340	Post Options Post Reply Quote nothingface5384 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 2:24pm
	I just did the 12in sport trac rotors/95gmc calipers disc conversion on my hornet i didnt change master nor porp valve...stops better but pedal travel is longer due to that i also had to use the rubber 79 camaro flex line..which was still a tad long...may change them to the SS version later when i do explorer rear disc.. if you want to rock 15in rims go with the ford 11in rotor kit Edited by nothingface5384 - Jun/20/2017 at 2:54pm
	1972 Pro-Toured Buick Skylark Twin turbo efi 355 v8 1973 Pro-Toured Ford Maverick 302 v8 1975 Stock AMC Hornet 232 I6 1978 Stock Plymouth Volare 225 /6

nickleone Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/04/2008 Location: westminster co Status: Offline Points: 1441	Post Options Post Reply Quote nickleone Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 2:26pm
	I did the Previa discs with Celebrity calipers. I used a 1974 Hornet disc/drum master cyl. I drilled the mounting holes on the master a little larger to fit the mount on the firewall. I had Ansen sprint slotted mags for the car 15 inch,6inch front 7 inch rear. All on a 62 Classic SW. They are great. Nick
	nick 401 71 Gremlin pro rally car sold 390 V8 SX/4 pro rally car sold 1962 Classic SW T5 4 wheel disc brakes

RTTComanche17 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/19/2009 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 73	Post Options Post Reply Quote RTTComanche17 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/20/2017 at 3:53pm
	tomj, Thanks for all the input about your experience with the kits. I'm glad you have liked them all; I'm in the same boat as you, quality and reliability over shiny any day. I would like to eventually take this to a track, but that is a ways off and will require a whole slew of upgrades before I try to beat on the car like that. There is a Stockton Wheel near some relatives I visit, may just have to stop in there one day during a visit and see what they could do about some custom wheels. And good tip on the MC's being more or less the same. I'll probably just use what I have for now. farna, I should have clarified, but I do know much more goes into braking calculations than rotor diameter. I was just hoping someone had run the 10" previa rotors and 8.8 rear w/ disks and could offer up some insight if they ran into difficulties. Thanks for the 15" steel rim tip, I'm still new at this AMC thing and didn't know if they made 15" rims for later models that accepted my hubcaps. I'll keep an eye out at junkyards when I'm there, but its mostly 1980's and up now, unfortunately. And as long as I can make it look clean, if I do go with non-AMC steel rims, you bet I will be trying to find a way to mount the old dog dish caps I have unless the new wheel studs are too long.... nothingface5384, Thanks for the input, glad you like the 12" kit. You may be one of the few on this forum with that particular kit installed. As for the 11" ford kit, Scarebird does not sell that one any more. I think that was their 1st or 2nd iteration. The 10" Previa rotor is the 3rd iteration and the 12" Sport Track is the 4th as far as I can tell. nickleone, Thanks for the input, especially the MC trick you used.
	1967 Rambler American #1 - junkyard rescue parts car 1967 Rambler American #2 - project car, but it runs!...for now...