TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Suspension, Steering, Brakes & Wheels
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Rubber -v- Polyurethane... or hybrid?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

Rubber -v- Polyurethane... or hybrid?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
GreggR View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Aug/21/2009
Location: Painesville, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 1267
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreggR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rubber -v- Polyurethane... or hybrid?
    Posted: May/21/2015 at 8:48pm
This got bandied-about quite a while back, but I couldn't locate the thread...

There were some good arguments made for a hybrid Poly-Rubber bushing set-up.

I'm wondering if any one has done this as a handling/ride quality compromise.

Where would you use Rubber?

Where would you use Poly?

Think a street car that would see some track-day action.

Good handling while keeping most of your fillings in place...

Gregg
No matter where you go, there you are... Buckaroo Banzai.'75 Hornet Hatchback
Back to Top
bikerfox View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Aug/02/2009
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bikerfox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2015 at 10:23pm
Type (w/o parentheses) in a google search box (theamcforum.com bushings rubber urethane) and you'll get the following:  http://theamcforum.com/forum/urethane-or-rubber-bushings_topic57792_page1.html

I have an American and although I know others who are in love with urethane and use it everywhere they can on the car, I would not use it at the rear of the leaf springs. It makes the car feel like it's at a rodeo.  However, your and other's experience may differ.
1969 Rebel SST (1970-1987)
1968 AMX (2005-2011)
1969 SC/Rambler (2011-2019)
1970 Javelin (2019 to ?)"Jane"
Back to Top
uncljohn View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jan/03/2013
Location: Peoria AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 5394
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2015 at 10:55pm
Polyurethane does not flex at all or very little anyway and most of the suspension parts on the era cars being restored by us are put together with rubber that absorbs impact such as from cracks in the road for example and certainly bigger and other types. Polyurethane will transmit those impacts through to the body of the car. Any movement of the suspension parts is cushioned by the rubber pieces much of them having been vulcanized to the bushing or what ever it is encased in again absorbing the stress and cushioning the impacts to the rest of the car. The polyurethane does none of that, if you put I together correctly it rotates, and if wrong will not rotate and the part it is in try's to flex instead causing stress or potentially can cause stress. That is why the suspension stiffens up and the ride becomes jarring and noisy. You could if you wanted to get rid of the polyurethane and machine aluminum pieces to go in and they will have just about the same effect.
AMC's front suspension depends on the cushioning affect of the rubber, 'specially the lower control arm. Now I am speaking of the 1970 and up ball joint cars. I have never owned something with a trunion and for a reason. But I suspect their lower control arm has the same flaws.
Of the some 2 dozen or so I have rebuilt, the lower control arm is prone to damage at the pivot point in part because of the non linear twisting motion it goes through and the rubber bushing allows that to take place, and putting in a polyurethane piece forces the lower control arm to flex even more as it pivots.
I won't use a Polyurethane piece unless there is nothing available and then there is no choice, polyurethane is machinable and parts can be made from it for a multitude of applications of which nothing else can be found. And I have done so over time.
Tom J has probably experimented more with Polyurethane front suspension pieces on early trunion equipped AMC cars that any one I am aware of over the years.
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
Back to Top
Fluffy73 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/21/2007
Location: Castlegar, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 3059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fluffy73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2015 at 11:07pm
I like using Polyurethane on the sway bar bushings and end links. It tightens those up nicely, but doesn't effect the ride in any way. What it does do is impact the handling a bunch and helps the car stay as level as it possibly can.

Strut rod bushings should stay rubber as they need to be able to move and absorb torque and shock. I think we've had a few members here with broken strut rods and/or strut rod frame brackets from using Poly bushings there.

I do like Polyurethane ball joint boots. They don't split/degrade as easily but is sometimes difficult to find them in straight black. Often times, these come in blue, red, green and that stands out too much to me if you're trying to go for stock-appearing.
I am genetically incapable of being Politically Correct.
Back to Top
carnuck View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Mar/31/2010
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 3942
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2015 at 11:13pm
I have mixed the strut arm bushings with rubber in front and poly in the back. I should do that with my Eagle wagon too, but I'll be lucky to just get the parts swapped now.
Back to Top
WesternRed View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Aug/03/2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5808
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WesternRed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2015 at 12:33am
Seems like the rubber strut rod bushings might be out of production, Moog appears to have dropped all AMC stuff and I'm not sure if anybody else makes the strut rod bushes. The other rubber bushes are still available from other manufacturers.
Back to Top
6PakBee View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: North Dakota
Status: Online
Points: 5458
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2015 at 6:04am
Originally posted by WesternRed WesternRed wrote:

Seems like the rubber strut rod bushings might be out of production, Moog appears to have dropped all AMC stuff and I'm not sure if anybody else makes the strut rod bushes. The other rubber bushes are still available from other manufacturers.


NAPA NCP274-9054  (Machine strut)
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach
Back to Top
White70JavelinSST View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Aug/08/2012
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 4867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2015 at 1:52pm
The WhiteJavelin has poly strut rod bushings, probably 7 or 8 thousand miles on them now, no troubles, but I don't hit every bump I can like I was driving a stolen car. It's not a daily driver either. I will say too, that when I raise the car into the air for service work, I put the jack under a block of wood near the lower ball joint to keep the suspension under as much compression as possible. Currently the car is on jack stands, for this work I removed the shocks and made droop limiters to keep the suspension compressed so the strut rods aren't damaged.
And the leaf springs have poly bushings also, the ride feels great. Also have sway bars with poly.
So far so good.
Your experience may differ. Attention to detail is important, even when driving.

Armand
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
Back to Top
Lucas660 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Apr/16/2012
Location: Vic, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1344
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucas660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2015 at 4:41am
Don't forget to use the special grease. I'm into poly.
Back to Top
prostreetamx View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/15/2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Status: Offline
Points: 1532
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prostreetamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2015 at 8:31am
I have poly everywhere in my front suspension and low sidewall 17" tires. This car got beaten up pretty hard on a recent trip to San Diego and bottomed out a lot. It rides much rougher on bad roads with the poly but rides like a dream on smooth roads with a very firm and predictable ride manners. This car has Shockwaves instead of coils in the front so my suspension travel is limited some compared to the coils. This car is my daily driver with over 40k miles on it over the last 4 years. I had been running a rubber bushed 4 link in the rear but the torque of the Hemi and some other factors led me to replace all the rubber bushed rod ends with stainless 5/8" rod ends. I ripped the mount off the axle and frame which caused some misalignment which contributed to the rubber ends premature failure but the summer heat in Las Vegas also kills the rubber pretty quick. I've have stock replacement strut rod bushings crack in less than 1 year. I switched to the 2 piece Ford style bushing on my other AMC's.
Richard Payne

Las Vegas,NV

72 5.7 Hemi Javelin

77 Prostreet 401/727 AMX,

[/URL]
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or