TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Trading Post: Sale, wanted, vendors,shipping > Product Announcements
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - rebuilt regulators
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

rebuilt regulators

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/23/2017 at 8:14pm
At least one replacement or third-party used the TO-220 style... haven't dug into others.
Motorola up into 1970 used TO-3
The third party TO-220 used a small heat-sink riveted to the transistor, it was free-standing.
Motorola didn't mount the TO-3 transistor to the case or housing. It was totally isolated electrically.
They used thermal-conducting potting materials. They conducted heat to the case but not current. 
I've demonstrated how quickly they respond to heat by warming the up with a hair dryer while watching the voltage drop on a running alternator on my test stand. I was curious as to how close to the Motorola specs. They have a "ramp" specifying the voltage change at various temperatures and I was experimenting on live regulators with heat. 

I may change transistor case styles as it's actually far more than needed - I can easily handle the power dissipation and amperage with a smaller transistor and the TO-220 style. 

My second version DOES use a darlington pair in a TO-220 case, am building a mock-up tonight - maybe.... my wife needs a quilt mounted on the machine tonight (she's already been paid for it, she was commissioned to make it special for a guy)
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/27/2017 at 10:24pm
A question came up in another post related to the regulator circuits I've been working on, hoping to be able to refurbish originals with new guts - 
Is being able to tweak or adjust voltage important at all for any reason, to anyone?

Our cars were never equipped with adjustable regulators so it just seemed that once things were set at the correct voltage, they'd be sealed, even if they originally had a trimmer on the board. 

With the holidays and health things I've not made a lot of progress the last few days but hope to get back at it shortly. 
Back to Top
6PakBee View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 5454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2017 at 7:22am
Originally posted by george w george w wrote:

Never had a Motorola regulator apart. Did they use a TO-3 case device inside the housing ? And if so, how was it mounted in order to use the case as a heat sink ? I would think a TO-220 or 247 could work if you can find a suitable device.



Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach
Back to Top
CamJam View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Jan/04/2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 6479
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2017 at 9:04am
Impressive that you managed to get the potting material off without destroying the wiring. That stuff is TOUGH!
'73 Javelin 360 (current project)
'72 Baja Bronze Javelin SST
'69 Big Bad Orange AMX (2018 Teague Heritage Award) SOLD

Back to Top
6PakBee View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 5454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2017 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by CamJam CamJam wrote:

Impressive that you managed to get the potting material off without destroying the wiring. That stuff is TOUGH!


I'm not that smart.  There seems to be at least two kinds of potting.  One is a black, tarry substance with what appears to be small beads mixed in it.  That's what this regulator had and I was able to remove it with a heat gun.  The other kind I've run into is a tan, hard substance that I haven't been able to soften up or easily remove with either heat or chemicals.  I could obviously remove it with brute force but I've found that typically brute force is hard on electronics. LOL
Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler
1970 RWB 4-spd Machine
1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX

All project cars.

Forum Cockroach
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2017 at 5:48pm
That's most likely not a genuine Motorola unless it's one made in the 1970s.
Motorola did use the larger TO-3 case transistor in their R2AM4 and earlier.
Motorola did change circuits and technology in the early 1970s so it's possible that replacements used the later technology, but the originals were the large TO-3 and look a whole lot different inside.

Many of the third party regulators use the TO-220 transistors and all it takes to soften the material is hot water. 
The one shown above is one exactly like I disassembled a while back - a sand-like substance (but larger, as said, more like beads)

Note how they modified the resistor by "grinding" some of it out. 
The problem with carbon resistors is they change with time and aren't as "accurate" - meaning the tolerance is greater. A 1K may be 980 or less depending on the tolerance of resistor used. 

I'm about done with version two and hope to test it this weekend.
I have the PC board designed and will contact a local company about manufacture if all goes well.
(version two doesn't use a Zener but uses a different "comparator" type design. (if that's a word...)

Version one was a great success so I'm really hopeful. It stood up to some heavy loads
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2017 at 6:06pm
Here's the third party regulator I had apart a while back. 
The Motorola is out in my shop and it's too cold to go back out there just for a photo now....

Also shown - the first version I made with the larger transistor - same case style Motorola used, and the breadboard I'm working on with the second version of my circuit.

(I hope to have a working prototype in a proper case released soon)

This is the version I already tested and have the board designed for........
it works fine.



This is the third-party or replacement regulator (upper left corner of pic) and the new circuit I'm working on that does not use a Zener diode for "sensing" or regulation.


Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/30/2017 at 11:41pm
PC board made, began assembly of a pilot version.
(Then Lucky became interested in what I was doing and wanted to carry some of the parts away, so I stopped.)

I'll have to replenish my PC board supplies because this is the last single layer copper one side board I had and my pens were pretty well dried up. I have enough solution for a few more, perhaps but will likely have someone else make the boards if I end up doing enough of these. 
It takes a lot of time to make the board, drill the holes, etc. 


Back to Top
DoughertyAMX View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Sep/20/2016
Location: Washington, Ind
Status: Offline
Points: 519
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DoughertyAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/31/2017 at 7:27am
A true work of art Bill.  Your attention to detail and the quality of your work is amazing.

Doug
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/31/2017 at 8:54am
Interesting, that's what my boss used to say at my annual reviews...........
Anyway, I had to shift some things around from my original board layout when I determined that it wasn't easy to get this transistor, or even one with the same specs, in a different case style.
So I shifted some things around on the board to open up a space and decided to do it similar to how Motorola did it - multi-levels. They mounted the switching transistor to a "shelf" in the housing and had the main board directly below that in the main body. That is why some ORIGINAL regulators have a housing that is not solid under the tag - that's where the transistor is, on one level, while the board is more "around back". They had to have an open face to screw the transistor to the "shelf" - which aided in heat transfer, but made it more complicated to assemble the regulator guts into the housing. Once the transistor was in place and secured, then they potted it and the material flowed around the "shelf" to encase the transistor and board, the transistor one one side a bit below the tag, the board in back, on the other side.
I will mount the transistor on stand-offs above the blank area of the board (at least for this design)
Depending on the original regulators I can get to salvage the housing and harness from I can also mount the transistor exactly like the originals - assuming I can get my hands on a few of that design.
The transistor case itself in the case of a TO-3 is the collector and is electrically "hot" so must be electrically insulated - otherwise the secret ingredient of any electric device, the smoke, will escape.
I note that they did like I'll do - test each circuit and tweak it as needed to get the regulated voltage desired by soldering resistors and other parts on the back side of the board to "adjust". The third party replacements ground out the carbon resistors where Motorola placed resistors on the back side of the board to "adjust" the voltage before it was potted.

My other design has a trimmer - I may end up doing something similar since even with modern parts of tighter tolerances, you get enough variation it will bug me.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or