TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Transmission & Drivetrain
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - rear end swap 56-66 Classic
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

rear end swap 56-66 Classic

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 14>
Author
Message
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 8:53am
Saying the Classic/Marlin/Ambo body isn't strong enough for leaf spring mounts is a real big joke! I know you're not saying it, but the 64-69 American body is virtually the same body as the big car, just a bit shorter and narrower. There are no reinforcements for the leaf spring mounts on the American except for the spring brackets themselves. The shackle bolts run through the rear "frame" rail with nothing more than a piece of tubing inside to prevent crushing the rail.

One minor correction though. In the late 40s/early 50s, Studebaker was working with Borg Warner on auto trans development (the only reference I could find for the DG-250 trans says it was a BW, but might be incorrect). Ford joined the two in the early 50s, Stude dropped out shortly after due to financial troubles. All the early Ford auto trannies (Cruise-O-Matic/Ford-O-Matic/Merc-O-Matic, etc.) are BW derivatives. Ford made their own cases and valve bodies, but most of the internal components will interchange. Wear parts will for sure, some hard parts do, though Ford seems to have changed some fo the bearing and component sizes. Hard to say what wiull and won't interchange. So Ford already had rights to the trans design when the FMX came out. The FMX was the last of the BW design based trannys. There are some similarities in the C-4 and C-6, but no parts interchange and they are obviously different designs.
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com
Back to Top
Wrambler View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/02/2007
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 3210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Saying the Classic/Marlin/Ambo body isn't strong enough for leaf spring mounts is a real big joke! I know you're not saying it, but the 64-69 American body is virtually the same body as the big car, just a bit shorter and narrower. There are no reinforcements for the leaf spring mounts on the American except for the spring brackets themselves. The shackle bolts run through the rear "frame" rail with nothing more than a piece of tubing inside to prevent crushing the rail.

Frank, NIT, There is NO SLEEVE in the 64-69 American Frame rail!  Thye use a shouldered bolt and only really use the outer section of unit frame and the pocket to secure the spring.
 
  I agree with you, The idea the Classic/Marlin/Ambassador body if not strong enough to handle leafs is not correct.   There is no reason they would not work with proper care and installation.
  I would not do so, I think if I was to go to this much work I would go as we have talked about to truck arms.  Wish I had the wherewithall to have you do them as we had talked about.  The truck arms will place the drive point and load right about where it is with the Torque tube!  Done right they would leave one with the same drive NVH etc,  sweet...
Wrambler

69 AMC Rambler

4.0L, 5 speed

65 Ambassador Ragtop rustbucket

97 Cherokee Sport

4.0L 5 speed

04 Grand Cherokee Laredo

4.7L Quadratrac II

Zip is 26505
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 2:36pm
I should have said that the real issue is the length of the springs and that the gas tank filler on the 63-66 Classic/Ambo/Marlin is on the left side. The filler tube would be right between the "frame" rail and leaf spring. The springs have to be pretty short also. Mustang II and of course American (and likely Gremlin/Hornet et. al.) fit, but full size car leafs are all too long. I wouldn't want to have the possibility of crushing the filler tube, and the torque tube is in all ways superior to leaf springs. Why replace it with something inferior? 
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11462
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by amcramblermarlin amcramblermarlin wrote:




Ford purchased (finally) the rights to manufacture the BW M8-12 auto transmission (which goes back in history to the story of Studebaker Detroit Gear DG 200 and DG 250 four speed lock up automatic transmission designed in '49/'50) starting around '67, and made a few changes to it then re-named it "FMX". Ford continued to use the FMX thru '78 in trucks? The FMX is another trans swap candidate then and should have the same bolt patterns as the BW M8-12 used in AMC products... and the the other plausible interchanges, such as high stall torque converter shift kit etc. but the AMC BWs can be tuned to shift firm if you know you're doing
You are joking.    Ford did not buy the rights......................the "FMX" is the last version of the Ford cast iron cruise-o-matic. and NONE of the parts interchange either.  and I guess you have been reading this incorrect information as usual...............Confused
Back to Top
amcguru View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar

Joined: Jul/24/2007
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcguru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 4:36pm

Aww, come on...if it's on the internet it MUST be true!


NAMDRA #3646

"I believe the best social program is a job" ~ Ronald Reagan
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11462
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by amcguru amcguru wrote:

Aww, come on...if it's on the internet it MUST be true!

LOL
Back to Top
farna View Drop Down
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Supporter of TheAMCForum
Avatar
Moderator Lost Dealership Project

Joined: Jul/08/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 7:59pm
This sticky is supposed to be only on swapping rear axles in torque tube cars! It's got out of hand and way off topic.

I started a new topic in the transmission section on the BW/Ford transmission issue that many will like. I originally posted here, then thought the better of it and moved my reply to a new topic.


Edited by farna - Jul/26/2009 at 8:03pm
Frank Swygert
American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com
Back to Top
beepbop View Drop Down
AMC Fan
AMC Fan
Avatar

Joined: May/07/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beepbop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2010 at 10:56pm
ClapClapClapClap
Back to Top
Wrambler View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/02/2007
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 3210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2010 at 10:38am
Update on leaf spring use or hitch mounting.
I noticed yesterday as I was cleaning and building crap that on the outerside of the rear unibody "frame" rails there is a 3/16" inch by 3" inch plate welded into the rail from the factory. It runs from the crossmember in front of the fuel tank to the rear bumper mount.  The plate does not quite go to that front of the gas tank cross member it stops about an 1" or so short of it, still plenty long though.

   If one was to want a heavy duty hitch on their Ambo or Classic it would be a good idea to fasten it either through the rails with a sleeve to clamp to that rail or run the hitch over to the outside of the rails.
Wrambler

69 AMC Rambler

4.0L, 5 speed

65 Ambassador Ragtop rustbucket

97 Cherokee Sport

4.0L 5 speed

04 Grand Cherokee Laredo

4.7L Quadratrac II

Zip is 26505
Back to Top
E.J. View Drop Down
AMC Fan
AMC Fan


Joined: Oct/31/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/02/2010 at 8:58pm
If you want to use ladder bars with a conventional driveshaft to replace the torque tube in a 1964 Classic, where do you attach the front of the ladder bars? I don't see anything with any strength to weld to. The rear frame section ends about 2 feet in front of the axle, and there is just belly pan up to the transmission cross member. I would appreciate any info and photos.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 14>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2012 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or