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rear end swap 56-66 Classic

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junior11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote junior11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: rear end swap 56-66 Classic
    Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 9:49am
I am wanting to put in a chevy 350 with 350TH and was wondering what kind of rear end modification I will need to make in order to do so. Photos would be a great help if any one has done this already or can give me an idea what custom work needs to be done in order to make this work correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 10:11am
Well, not wanting to push the other forum, but...
If you wander over there under chassis, you will see a topic titled a couple of weekends with a welder...or similar.

   The poster is a member here, but he has not chosen to post the story here, Cry
Anyway, he put ladder bars, etc under his Classic. He should be able to talk you through with any questions as he has recently done it.

  As for your engine choice Twak

It is your car. Have fun!
Wrambler

69 AMC Rambler

4.0L, 5 speed

65 Ambassador Ragtop rustbucket

97 Cherokee Sport

4.0L 5 speed

04 Grand Cherokee Laredo

4.7L Quadratrac II

Zip is 26505
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote junior11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 12:26pm
do you have a link to the other forum ? What motor would you suggest ?
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forest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 12:53pm
350/700r4 is what I am doing for a member from massachusets on this forum. His car arrives saturday or sunday.  Ill leave the diff in it for now but may de a swap to a ford 8.8 in the future if his budget allows.
setting guys out by car lengths....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 1:28pm
Forest, You do know that is a Torque tube car?

Jr, as for engine choice, it really is your car. 
I'd stick to an AMC engine. You can use anything that fits in between the fenderwells. even some that don't. This is the Theamcforum so I tend to think that way.

Link

http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1234043426/14#14


Edited by Wrambler - Jun/18/2009 at 1:34pm
Wrambler

69 AMC Rambler

4.0L, 5 speed

65 Ambassador Ragtop rustbucket

97 Cherokee Sport

4.0L 5 speed

04 Grand Cherokee Laredo

4.7L Quadratrac II

Zip is 26505
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 10:17pm
You need the ladder bars as in the link above, but you can save a lot of work and money in the spring and shock department by reusing the Rambler pieces. A Ford Explorer 8.8" rear axle fits well, it's roughly the same width and even has disc brakes. Take the spring seats off the Rambler axle and drill the Ford tubes for the 3/8" fine thread bolt holding the seats on the Rambler. Just bolt them on the Ford (or other donor) axle and use the Rambler rear springs. The shock mounts and panhard rod mount bolt off the Rambler too. Hmm... might be riveted on, just grind the heads off and bolt onto the donor axle.

You don't have to use ladder bars, but do have to have something to locate the axle as the torque tube did that before, and it's gone! You can use a universal style four link kit, or anything like that. Ladder bars are the easiest, and ride well on smooth roads as long as they are long enough (at least 30", but the longer the better). "Truck arms" are essentially long ladder bars that extend near the back of the transmission. You can mod a G-body kit if you want (http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckarm/truckarm_gbody/truckarm_gbody.htm).

This really needs to be made a sticky -- we get "how do I put a different/newer AMC drivetrain in a 56-66 Rambler torque tube car" a lot!! I'm tired of typing the same answers!!
Frank Swygert

American Motors Cars Magazine

www.amc-mag.com
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Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 11:11pm
My car is a 64 Classic with an AMC V8....it previously had a Mopar Magnum 360. When the previous owner fabbed up the rear axle, they took a Ford 9 inch, made some mounts off the inside of the framerails for the ladder bars, and welded the perches on the 9 inch for the original Rambler springs, shocks and panhard bar. Pretty straight forward and seems to work.
 
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I feel this is important to mention as this doesnt seem to be very easy to find info for someone interested:
 
 As far as mounting a later model engine...the AMC 290/304/343/360/390/401 will bolt right in. You just need a big body V8 crossmember and mounts from a Javelin, AMX etc..NOT the small body Gremlin/Hornet crossmember. You also need the bolts w/cammed washers to adjust the lower control arms, the Rambler crossmember doesn't have them, they are just normal bolts w/washers. The car isn't running yet (I've been too busy to work on it lately) but the engine seems to be positioned correctly in the engine compartment, looks like it could've came from the factory.
'66 Marlin, 327/Shift-Command

'64 Rambler Classic 550, 401/727

'71 Gremlin, 4.0 H.O./AW4

'85 Grand Wagoneer, 360/727, 4" lift
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Marano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2009 at 11:20pm
Use a different solution!  Use a Firebird or Camaro rear axle they have a torque tube like link.  Use the GM transmission. Use the GM engine, no don't use that! 

Bolt a link onto the donor axle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2009 at 7:25am
The "torque link" solution will work, and the Camaro/Firebird axle should be about the right width, you just end up with GM pattern wheels on the back and AMC/Ford/Chryco pattern on the front. That's not really a big deal, you can buy two pairs of the same wheel with the different patterns.

I have that on mine with a Jaguar IRS. I use dual pattern Weld Drag Lite wheels, but even that's not necessary, except for the spare. The Jag IRS uses the old full size Chevy 5x4.75" lug pattern (standard AMC is 5x4.5"),  and the Camaro/Firebird does also (as well as trucks, Corvettes,  and up to 88 full size rear drive Chevys). Right now I just carry a Cherokee compact spare, so I'd have to change two tires if I get a flat on the back -- change a front tire, then swap that front one to the back. A hassle, but haven't had to do it in five years (knock on wood!). If you keep your tires up flats aren't that common any more. I have been thinking I should just buy a skinny Drag Lite and stick a narrow regular tire on it (such as drag cars use for the front) and make my own "space saver" spare with the correct dual bolt pattern. Been thinking that for five years now...

Great tip on the engine mounting Josh! I forgot that the big AMC crossmember bolts right in. That would be Javelin as well as Rebel/Matador and Ambassador.

A Chevy SBC will bolt to the GEN-1 V-8 mounting perches if 60s Chevy truck mounts with a single stud on the bottom are used. I forget if new holes for the studs have to be drilled. Other small blocks should fit also.

I know we don't really like "foreign" engines in our AMCs, but there will always be some who want to do it, and sometimes for good reason. Best reason I ever heard was from a fellow who drag raced an AMX -- he wanted to preserve the original 390 for restoration of the car when he tired of racing. He wasn't worried about blowing dime-a-dozen SBCs, didn't wnat to damage his 390!
Frank Swygert

American Motors Cars Magazine

www.amc-mag.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcramblermarlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/26/2009 at 1:46am
I think among the main reasons new AMC enthusiasts want to swap out the AMC engine and drivetrain is caused by bad information; they think the engine and drivetrain do not have good potential (bad information!)

The stock AMC torque tube drive system offers excellent traction; the torque tube acts as a very long ladder bar which attaches very near to the car's center of gravity (genius) and also offers the best road noise and vibration  isolation having only one bushed body mount; the panhard rod.

If your car is a six cylinder, it will be the new AMC six which has plenty (tons of) hop up parts to turn it into a racing engine. If you want more potential, you can swap in (bolt in) a V8 BW M8-10 auto trans, or even adapt a BW M11 or 12 with vacuum kickdown, to install a Rambler V8 (and get that crossmember with the engine) or use any '66- 72 V8 bellhousing as an adapter to install a later AMC V8

Ford purchased (finally) the rights to manufacture the BW M8-12 auto transmission (which goes back in history to the story of Studebaker Detroit Gear DG 200 and DG 250 four speed lock up automatic transmission designed in '49/'50) starting around '67, and made a few changes to it then re-named it "FMX". Ford continued to use the FMX thru '78 in trucks? The FMX is another trans swap candidate then and should have the same bolt patterns as the BW M8-12 used in AMC products... and the the other plausible interchanges, such as high stall torque converter shift kit etc. but the AMC BWs can be tuned to shift firm if you know you're doing

insightful in my opinion, it seems new AMC enthusiasts tend to want to apply what they've seen done on other cars, but is not always the best thing to do

As a hard core AMC enthusiast, I difficult for me to really like having any other type of car, and I might be one of the first to take on the argument that AMC engines were better than their competitors, tit for tat.

Another aspect of the AMC torque tube drive system is it relates to a time in auto history when concepts of using the major drivetrain components for crash safety were explored, and the T shape helps to make a skeleton structure under the passenger compartment to keep it from crushing in the event of an extreme rear end impact... and Rambler was big on safety... this was especially important for a unibody car in a world of body on frame cars... about the time AMC quit using it, was about the time GM, Ford and Chrysler began making unibody (intermediate and compact) cars during the early and mid sixties

If there is no way of convincing a person to keep their original drivetrain, and they must swap out the torque tube system so they can get silly wheelspin like other cars have, then I'd say to look into a Jeep Gran Cherokee rear axle as it does have extra large isolation bushings, a four arm long and short mounting with panhard rod, coil springs, & low drag parking brake rear discs, but I don't know the track dimension (leaf spring rear is not recommended by certain older AMC enthusiasts saying Classic/Marlin unibody is not strong enough for rear leaf mounts)


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